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RE: [ox-en] Re: Alternative exchange systems furthering GPL society?

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  do you have any reference to the text(s) where he mentioned this idea?

Paul Cockshott <wpc> wrote:  Marx was adamant that labour vouchers were 'no more money
than theatre tickets are', the significant point is that 
they were non-transferable and did not circulate.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-list-en [owner-list-en] On Behalf Of Michael Bouwens
Sent: 30 December 2005 12:40
To: list-en
Subject: Re: [ox-en] Re: Alternative exchange systems furthering GPL society?

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  I find your reaction surprising, you call monetary reform an  anti-thesis, but what you propose, abolishing money straight away, is  even more so. Not only is it a simplistic use of dialectics (see Roy  Bhaskar for a more elaborate contemporary view), but even Marx wanted  to replace money with work notes which would have pretty much  functioned like money anyway. Raoul Victor has some privileged access  to these debates I believe, on his French-language discussion site.
  Taken out of the capitalist context of distortion through power, money  may serve a number of useful purposes in a undetermined (in temporal  terms) transitory society (i.e. not marketless or stateless). This is  what monetary reform addresses: since it cannot be abolished, to make  it better, to include its best features, but transcend its limitations.
  Below access to some documentary material. I think you are largely  uninformed, just reaction from previously held dogmatic positions ...
  Issue 99,
  Power today is in many senses 'protocollary', i.e. how you design a
  network from the bottom-up, especially its ground rules, will to a
  great sense determine its later possibilities. What if this were true
  for money as well, that the very scarcity-paradigm at the basis of the
  money system already determines the rules in advance. And what if a
  reform of these ground rules would be a powerful incentive for change.
  This is the basic proposition of a growing movement, that we are
  presenting today, in a quite coherent overview.
      Why should seigneurage be abolished and demurrage be introduced? If
  that sounds incomprehensible to you know, I hope that after reading
  this issue, it won't.
      See also a new radical approach to microlending through a real peer to
  peer bank in Uganda.
      The next issue, 100, which is a milestone of sorts I guess, will be
  about 'social software' developments. The good news is that I will
  soon announce my first sponsor, who has heeded the call a few issues
  past; and I will also sollicit this community of readers to assist in
  some of the expenses associated with the project.
      Now is also the time to look at the P2P Foundation site, which is
  finally emerging from its slumber,
      URL = 
      Michel Bauwens
        ISSUE 99, Table of Contents        
   Reactions to the P2P essay
   P2P Monetary Issues (0): Reforming the system: demurrage-based currencies
   P2P Monetary Issues (1): Reforming the system: abolishing seigneurage
   P2P Monetary Issues (2): Reforming the system, for a systems approach
   P2P Monetary Issues (3): Reforming the system: Lietaer's green convertible currency
   P2P Monetary Issues (4): Social Money and the Distributive Economy
   P2P Monetary Issues (5): Basic Income Studies, new journal
   P2P Monetary Issues (6): Traditional and new complementary currencies
   P2P Monetary Issues (7): Open Money, a system of multiple currencies
   P2P Monetary Issues (8): Kiva, first P2P microfinance system
   P2P Monetary Issues (9): The Cosmic Accounting proposal, Malcolm Green
   Empire: What's Behind the global financial crises  

Stefan Merten  wrote:  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi Michel and all!

Yesterday I wrote:
Last month (47 days ago) Michael Bouwens wrote:
Also a new era does not solve the problems of the previous one
directly but by transforming and overcoming them on a new level /
synthesis. This new level / synthesis is probably the hardest thing to

<< On the one hand, you say this, and I'd be happy to read what this
synthesis is, but in most of your interventions one has the
impression that you are happy for DFS to just grow on, organically
(aka germ form theory),

Well, just look at Free Software and you can see some examples.

For instance the question of individual supply with needed goods in
capitalism boils down to the question of having enough money
available. As a result the question of satisfying needs always ends in
the question where the money comes from. In Free Software the supply
with needed goods is always an issue. However, it is solved completely

One more thought. The money trickery schemes you are advocating are
exactly no synthesis but only an anti-thesis. Their idea is to supply
people with money. They are based on the same basic principles like
the system which creates the problems they try to fight. This is no
overcoming of a problem but only a anti-thesis.

      Mit Freien Grüßen


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