Re: [ox-en] built-in infinite growth
- From: Stefan Meretz <stefan.meretz hbv.org>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:33:16 +0100
Hi Adam and all,
On 2008-01-09 11:56, Adam Arvidsson wrote:
I don't think so, because there was no profit and its logic before
did you read Petronius Satyricon? Trimalchio, the vulgar noveaux
riche freed slave made zillions in profits from trading in the
Mediterranean..arab slave traders, chinese merchants even the vikings
where all after profit max. granted profits resulted from trade
rather than production
Profit in the sense of a political economy is defined as surplus value
in relation to invested capital by producing commodities. Trading, for
example, cuts a slice from the produced profit to put it into own
pockets. Thus it doesn't create profit, it reduces profit. This is only
valid during capitalism. Before capitalism, during C-M-C, when there
someone hoards money, then he hoards only the means of trading as you
explained correctly, but not money as capital. No capital, no profit.
Beside this, one can call a trading income "profit", and this is done
every day. It's kind of a common speech, however, it is not correct in
a scientific sense of political economy.
I read in english Wikipedia (being not completely correct in my view),
that even in traditional theory there is a difference between economic
profit (related to invested capital) and accounting profit (difference
between sales price and acquisition costs).
(I agree that most production did not unfold
according to the capitalist logic of profit max, but rather according
to the feudal logic of the manor or household) but this is a question
of the level of subsumption attained by capital in respect to its
environment: i.e. a capitalist logic centered around profit max. had
not yet expanded far enough to include production into its 'domain'.
But that does not mean that it wasn't there.
No, it is not just a quantitative, but a qualitative difference, because
the economic logics and goals are different. BC you strive for wanted
products, WC you strive for more money.
apart form this, where does profit max (or M-C-M') come from in your
From surplus value, thus from the difference between the value of labour
power being paid by the buyer (as wage) and the value of labour being
sticked into commodities during production and sold on market.
The only difference between surplus value and profit is, that profit is
related to invested capital which includes wages _and_ material
resources like machines and raw material etc. while surplus value is
only related to labour power costs (wages).
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