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Re: [ox-en] built-in infinite growth

Hi Adam and all,

On 2008-01-09 11:56, Adam Arvidsson wrote:
I don't think so, because there was no profit and its logic before

did you read Petronius Satyricon? Trimalchio, the vulgar noveaux
riche freed slave made zillions in profits from trading in the slave traders, chinese merchants even the vikings
where all after profit max. granted profits resulted from trade
rather than production

Profit in the sense of a political economy is defined as surplus value 
in relation to invested capital by producing commodities. Trading, for 
example, cuts a slice from the produced profit to put it into own 
pockets. Thus it doesn't create profit, it reduces profit. This is only 
valid during capitalism. Before capitalism, during C-M-C, when there 
someone hoards money, then he hoards only the means of trading as you 
explained correctly, but not money as capital. No capital, no profit.

Beside this, one can call a trading income "profit", and this is done 
every day. It's kind of a common speech, however, it is not correct in 
a scientific sense of political economy.

I read in english Wikipedia (being not completely correct in my view), 
that even in traditional theory there is a difference between economic 
profit (related to invested capital) and accounting profit (difference 
between sales price and acquisition costs).

(I agree that most production did not unfold 
according to the capitalist logic of profit max, but rather according
to the feudal logic of the manor or household) but this is a question
of the level of subsumption attained by capital in respect to its
environment: i.e. a capitalist logic centered around profit max. had
not yet expanded far enough to include production into its 'domain'.
But that does not mean that it wasn't there.

No, it is not just a quantitative, but a qualitative difference, because 
the economic logics and goals are different. BC you strive for wanted 
products, WC you strive for more money.

apart form this, where does profit max (or M-C-M') come from in your

From surplus value, thus from the difference between the value of labour 
power being paid by the buyer (as wage) and the value of labour being 
sticked into commodities during production and sold on market.

The only difference between surplus value and profit is, that profit is 
related to invested capital which includes wages _and_ material 
resources like machines and raw material etc. while surplus value is 
only related to labour power costs (wages).


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Contact: projekt

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