Re: [ox-en] Material peer production (Part 4: What Difference Does It Make?)
- From: "Michel Bauwens" <michelsub2004 gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:51:40 +0700
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So you are saying that democracy is opposed to the free choices of
individuals? I'm not sure what kind of democracy that would be ...(of
course, I'm not talking about absolute freedom but to a minimum of political
and economic freedoms).
Perhaps there is no choice in a country like Bolivia, where events are
precipating necessary forceful action by Morales ...
We would still need to compare in the longer run, whether the situation of
Venezuela and Bolivia is better than Brazil ...
If 'we' are always losing, or winning in such a way that the victorious
situation is actually worse, this may not be the best strategy ...
I'm not necessarily advocating a brazilian neoliberal accomodation (if that
is the case?), but policies that rely less on direct political confrontation
and more on long term deep transformations that profound alter the balance
of power.
Also judging from my experience in Thailand, the issue is not just the
ruling class, but just as much the middle class, which does not want to
share its achievements with the poor majority ... Many of the social
movements, in the philippines against the actor president, the thai PAD, are
essentially that. I think that the movements in Venezuela and Bolivia might
be the same.
Wasn't it the case that in western europe, the labour movement did succeed
in allying the middle classes?
In any case, I'm not sure the situation is the same in the West, where there
does not seem to be a majority for any radical change ...
How do we go about change here?
My answer is by strengthening and interconnecting all the movements already
happening in a way that strengthens post-capitalist logics,
Michel
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Paul Cockshott <wpc dcs.gla.ac.uk> wrote:
Michel Bauwens wrote:
My own preference would be to measures which do not set off civil wars
(cfr
Bolivia, etc...) and therefore are based on minimal or no coercion, and
the
free choices of individuals and communities
Pursuit of democracy and the 'free choices of individuals' are
incompatible
particularly in a country like Bolivia where the Spanish descended ruling
class
has for so long oppressed and exploited the native indian majority.
Morales has to act decisively against the US attempt to foment
a Jugoslav style civil war.
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