Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money

• From: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi gmail.com>
• Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:49:48 -0800

[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
<<
If I were a third person C and i neither knew A or B. The fact that B gave a
certain numerical amount of "trust points" to A would not let me evaluate
how A would comply to my personal standard that would define my trust in A
that i had if i knew A personally. However the system that i suggested would
directly give me all i need to do this: A could show me by _whom_ he is
respected and most important: for what he is respected. i can verify his
certificates by cryptographic means on a p2p basis if i know the public keys
of the certificate issuers (of course the public keys must be 'trusted' in a
way that i know they are belonging to real persons, too - this cryptographic
trust that prevents fake certificates is a rather technical detail and shall
not be confused with social respect)

1. This is no different than Recommend Me feature in sites like LinkedIn

2. The LinkedIn "Recommend Me" feature is a direct copy of the social custom
of one person recommending another, so what is new here?

3. If you are unable to contact the persons providing the recommendation and
discern for yourself that they are real people then you're unable to
establish trust, and certificates won't help you at all. If i go by 7
identities each of which has its own set of work in public and then I start
recommending myself I can also obtain 7 certificates and pay respect to
myself (or one of my 7 selves) from 6 different people who are me. That is
unless you use a physical electronic/biometric ID card and then you have a
problem of people hacking and replicating those cards on the black market.

I don't understand how this is any different than the established social
practice of people recommending people.





On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Stefan Noack <noackstefan googlemail.com>wrote:

[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
Hi

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Stefan Seefeld <seefeld sympatico.ca

wrote:

Stefan Noack wrote:

"Trust points" is something that seems self-contradicting to me. Trust
is always relative. If person A gets trust from B the value of that
trust cannot be quantified by any of them. Of course. B could quantify
how good the trust in A is but those values can _never_ be summed up
to a value that appers as a "score" of A.

Yes they can. In fact, this is pretty much what nowadays 'social network'
sites use to give some 'ranking'. It's an elaborate 'web of trust', where
people declare some form of confidence in their peers. (What precisely

that

is supposed to measure is dependent on the specific web in question.)

Lots

of research has gone into the question of how to make such networks safe
against intruders.

If I were a third person C and i neither knew A or B. The fact that B gave
a
certain numerical amount of "trust points" to A would not let me evaluate
how A would comply to my personal standard that would define my trust in A
that i had if i knew A personally. However the system that i suggested
would
directly give me all i need to do this: A could show me by _whom_ he is
respected and most important: for what he is respected. i can verify his
certificates by cryptographic means on a p2p basis if i know the public
keys
of the certificate issuers (of course the public keys must be 'trusted' in
a
way that i know they are belonging to real persons, too - this
cryptographic
trust that prevents fake certificates is a rather technical detail and
shall
not be confused with social respect)

grüße

stefan


[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de

[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de

• Follow-Ups:
  • Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
    • From: Stefan Noack

• References:
  • Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
    • From: Stefan Noack
  • Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
    • From: Michel Bauwens
  • Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
    • From: Stefan Noack
  • Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
    • From: Stefan Seefeld
  • Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
    • From: Stefan Noack

• Next in thread: Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
• Previous in thread: Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
• First in thread: Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
• Last in thread: Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
• Previous thread: [ox-en] nice oekonux conference endorsement from Bruce Sterling in Wired!
• Next thread: [ox-en] How the Derivatives Market Jumped of a Cliff On Its Way to a Party
• Next by Date: Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money
• Prev by Date: Re: [ox-en] Response to Stefan Meretz on the social production of money