Re: [ox-en] Marginalism - the religion
- From: Diego Saravia <diego.saravia gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:19:11 -0300
2009/4/21 Patrick Anderson <agnucius gmail.com>:
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Diego Saravia <diego.saravia gmail.com> wrote:
There is far more to production than duplication.
Living things such as a Strawberry plant can be thought of as pure
design (DNA) that has been applied to the minerals and organic matter
causing the plant to grow and reproduce (duplicate).
organic matter is scarce, the same as pre internet info goods, they
are always related to a physical object
you need paper to carry your book, more paper for more books
you need live beings to carry DNA
you can reproduce a lot of files without any aditional cost
of info goods is only a copy of bytes, 0 marginal cost
marginal is the key word
We cannot ignore the ecologic Costs of even 1 bit!
I am not speaking about ecology
Are costs Marginal for moving 64k from one memory location to another?
Would a programmer agree with you?
It cost nothing more to me to move 64k from my machine to your machine via mail
than not moving the bytes.
Are TeraBytes across the globe Marginal? What is BitTorrent?
I do not pay anything more to use bittorrent than not using it, in
fact I could save money in music.
Is sharing copies locally cheaper?
Are those savings always only Marginal?
yes for me.
In either case, do the copper wires cost nothing to mine, smelt,
purify, cast/form, finish, cover, ship, store and sell?
you already pay for it
What about the electricity? What about the noise? What about the
heat? The pollution?
my machine is always on
if you have internet
That's no small if!
yes, digital divide exits, two societies (perhaps more)
I agree, is not a small if, is the fundamental fact about the info societies
Who gets the internet for Free as in Beer?
for me is not free, but I always pay the same.
This view of reality is so perplexing to me.
I understand your point, but is not related to mine.
How can such barriers to entry be so ignored?
I do not ignore them, I am speaking about other stuff.
And we are all being overcharged.
could be, I dont know.
the only scarcity is "artificial" , copyright law
But it is possible to use Copyright and maybe even Patents in our favor.
yes, by a hack.
Without Copyright there could be no Copyleft, and without Copyleft,
we would not need copyleft if we do not have copyright
When users (consumers) have "at cost" access to the sources of
production (both informational and physical), then competition is
maximized because every potential worker can vie for that job without
external 'owners' getting in the way - for in this case the user and
owner are the same.
so info goods are not economic goods
This is what I don't understand.
useless definition (for my perspective)
Definition of Economic Goods: An economic good is a physical object or
service that has value to people and can be sold for a non-negative
price in the marketplace.
more enlighted definition (in my terms)
Consumable item that is useful to people but scarce in relation to its
demand, so that human effort is required to obtain it. In contrast,
free goods (such as air) are naturally in abundant supply and need no
conscious effort to obtain them.
off course these is true for info goods marginally
you are in or not.
What about the owners of the physical sources needed to *host* those
Are the cost of creating and maintaining Google's server-farms marginal?
yes, for me
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