Message 06156 [Homepage] [Navigation]
Thread: oxenT06151 Message: 6/6 L3 [In index]
[First in Thread] [Last in Thread] [Date Next] [Date Prev]
[Next in Thread] [Prev in Thread] [Next Thread] [Prev Thread]

Re: [ox-en] Mapping the GNU GPL into the Physical Realm



every time you erase something, entropy is generated.

Feynman dixit.

2011/9/6 Ian Hewitt <Ian.Hewitt phonecoop.coop>:
A further point of distinction is the thermodynamic behaviour of the
physical world - each time there is a conversion of form/content entropy is
created which is not the case in the virtual form ..recompiling source code
carries no great overhead apart from time (..and a little energy).

Perhaps more care needs to be given to the design of
re-useable/reconfigurable physical objects - with due regard to
thermodynamic losses?

Ian



On 06/09/11 08:55, Lehor Meius wrote:

This is very interesting. However I see a difference between physical and
virtual objects:

When a virtual Object is created from virtual Sources, the amount of
virtual Sources remains the same.
The possibility to create another Object is exactly the same.

However, when we create a physical Object from Physical Sources, the
amount of physical Sources decreases
for they are locked up in a physical Object. At some point we would need
more work in order to create an
Object - to find additional Sources. Basically, as new Objects are
created, access becomes more difficult
for new Users.

The only remedy I see against this is when creation of a physical Object
does not give ownership rights,
but instead gives *usership* rights. This means, once the Object in no
longer used (for example the beer
bottle after the beer has been consumed), the user has the duty to return
it to the Source pool. Basically,
all created physical Objects have to be returned to the Sources once they
are no longer used.


Lehor

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:54:37 -0600, Patrick Anderson wrote:

Hello all,

I've been trying to understand how the GNU GPL might apply to the
material world and am happily surprised with the results.


In the virtual world of software:
1.) An Object is the result of {compiling} some type of Sources.
2.) Sources are the inputs such as {source-code, makefiles,
shell-scripts, installer scripts, etc.} required to change a future
instance of that Object type.


In the physical world of hardware:
1.) An Object is the result of {work* across time} to some type of
Sources.
2.) Sources are the inputs such as {land and water and seeds and
animals and tools} required to change a future instance of that Object
type.
*  Note: some Objects are occasionally created by the 'work' of nature
with no human intervention.



So we can say physical Objects have physical Sources.

For example, the Sources of a bottle of beer include land, water,
barley, hops, yeast, heated water, containers, glass (for the bottle),
kiln (to melt the glass), etc. - and even recursively all the sources
required to initially create the tools that created the tools, etc...


The GNU GPL instructs us to help every user incrementally gain at-cost
access the Sources of all the Objects they use.

I think I've found a way to do this!

The trick is to start a business that can treat some % of Profit
(Price above Cost) as an INVESTMENT FROM THE PAYER.

Treating Profit as Payer Investment causes each user to slowly gain
co-ownership in the *growth* of that organization.

Imagine you buy a $5 hamburger from such a place, but it only cost the
current owners $3 to deliver that surplus (the owners would only be
selling surplus, since the *primary* reason for their investments
would be to receive at-cost objects such as hamburgers).

The cashier would give you a receipt showing you now have (within a
future vesting window) $2 invested in more land, water rights, calves,
and also toward paying wages, etc.

As you continue to gain ownership (and as you also continue to pay
recurring costs on what you already own), you will eventually go to
the new restaurant your overpayments help to create, and you will show
your ownership credentials to prove you already own a prepared
hamburger as a result of your ownership in the entire tree of it's
production.

When the investors will accept the objects themselves (say beer) as
compensation for the risk they took, there is no sale because the end
user already paid all the costs of production, and owns the objects as
a side-effect of those commitments.

And since there is no sale, Profit doesn't even have a chance to enter
the picture.
And without a sale there is no attack-point for external governments -
and so no sales tax.


http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_rent is a subset or simplified
version of this.


Sincerely,
Patrick Anderson
http://ImputedProduction.BlogSpot.com


We can also eliminate wages by committing to swap of skills within a
"closed-loop, user-owned production aggregate" *before* production
begins.  I call it pre-barter.
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de

_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de

_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de




-- 
Diego Saravia
Diego.Saravia gmail.com
NO FUNCIONA->dsa unsa.edu.ar

====================================================================
"Disclaimer:" Haré lo que desee con los correos que reciba, quien no
este de acuerdo, que se abstenga de enviarme correo a mí o a las
listas donde este suscripto.
En particular NO VALE ningun "disclaimer" que indique que el correo
enviado es privado o sujeto a normas de empresas, gobiernos, u
organizaciones de cualquier tipo.
Con relación a los estados y sus leyes, analizare cualquier norma
aplicable en el territorio donde eventualmente actúe en el momento,
escucho a cualquiera que tenga algo que decir.
Con respecto en particular a los derechos de autor, salvo acuerdo
previo, gozaré plenamente de las 4 libertades con todo lo que reciba,
considerandolo, en cuanto a lo patrimonial,
como propio.
====================================================================
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de



Thread: oxenT06151 Message: 6/6 L3 [In index]
Message 06156 [Homepage] [Navigation]