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Re: [ox-en] Report from COM'ON workshop: Dam builders and ship builders



Hi

Just wanted to add my opinion on this. :)

It is my belief, that "classical" left (pre-60's) opinion proceeds from agricultural and basic production (from "earth" if you wish). Peer production originates from the realms of virtual production (or "heaven"). Perhaps the conflict arises because in the virtual world the ideal of Marx ("voluntary association of independent producers") is in some cases already a reality.

In modern times the virtual and basic production are no longer separate worlds, since ICT is integrated more and more into everything and brings its logic along with it into new sectors of production.

The aim, I belive, is still the same - both movements originally want to give the individuals control over the means of production so they could produce their own livelihood. In the virtual realm means of production can be reproduced for every single individual. In the realm of natural resources, energy, land this is not possible, so they have to be seized in some manner for different modes of usership. (However, the ICT world has also some experience with common physical resources, since the physical infrastructure or bandwidth of the internet could perhaps be viewed that way).

Nevertheless in the realm of physical resources the original left theories might still be relevant, even if this is no longer true for production.


On identity politics - I don't think they can be considered classically left. I understand, that Marx at least demanded originally precisely the ability for each to "self-acutalize": the right and possibility to work for personal goals and associate with others for common goals. In that sense the demand of modern left for group- or state-enforced recognition of various minority identities is not classically left (for example it makes the State as the enforcer indispensable).

It is my impression that for classical left this recognition should arise "naturally", without law, from people and groups themselves - because its smart to look past the differences and find the common ground for your projects.


Regards,
Lehor

On 15.12.2011 19:56, Christian Siefkes wrote:
Hi Stefan and all,

On 12/12/2011 12:01 PM, Stefan Merten wrote:
Last Saturday I attended the workshop

	     COM' ON! - Die alte Eigentumswelt dreht sich

See http://commons.rosalux.de/ for the homepage.
...
Well, I'm not really into this commons debate but my impression is
this: It is composed of two discourses which IMHO have nothing to do
with each other. One of the discourses is the commons based peer
production discourse which is put forward by people like StefanMz and ChristianS. I.e. the topic of this list. The other discourse is a very classical left discourse with all the same old, same old questions and
approaches. Here are some aspects which IMHO mark the boundary:

* Appropriation of means of production

  Part of the left commons discourse seems to be the classical
discussion about power relationships. As one example the power over
  means of production is discussed in the form that the means of
  production must be appropriated from the current owners. That
  reflects closely the classical discussion that the working class
  should be owner of the means of production.

In the peer production discourse this question - which is of course an important one - is answered differently: Let's build the means of
  production ourselves. This is a very different approach.

This was specifically the topic of the world-cafe table I hosted: "Was
passiert mit den bestehenden Produktionsstrukturen im Falle einer
gesellschaftlichen Transformation?" [What becomes of the existing structures of production if society is transformed?] (I'll publish the full protocol of
the discussion at keimform.de in a few days.)

The two positions you describe are caricatures of two extreme end points of
the spectrum of opinion. "Lets just appropriate the existing means of
production (MoP) and use them as they are" is indeed the classical
leftist/socialist position, but almost nobody at the table voiced it quite like that (you attended parts of the discussion yourself). Most people tended more in the direction argued for by you and me: that it's essentially necessary to build new, and better MoP, that are aimed at producing for benefit and self-entfaltung rather than for profit. Instead of appropriating the source code of Windows and the content of the Encyclopedia Britannica,
peer producers created GNU/Linux and the Wikipedia.

But obviously you cannot start from nothing. For writing free software and free texts, people need computers, and for creating free physical means of production and using them to produce useful things such as furniture and food, you need at the very least natural resources such as wood and metals,
and land. So the question "How do we get the resources and other MoP
necessary to create benefit-oriented productive infrastructures?" is still
an important one.

* Importance of environmental issues

  In the left commons discourse environmental issues seem to play an
  important role. This is of course part of the more recent left
  standard program.

  In peer production I can't see that environmental issues play any
  special role.

They obviously play a role. Indeed the turn-money-into-more-money logic of capitalism strives for infinite growth (which in the long run is impossible on our limited planet), while the benefit-oriented logic of commons-based peer production contain no such built-in grow imperative. Hence I think the
ecological argument is one of the most important arguments why peer
production is not only better, but indeed essential.

See my article "Das gute Leben produzieren"
<http://www.keimform.de/2011/das-gute-leben-produzieren/> (German), or, for
English, my contribution to the upcoming volume of CSPP
<http://cspp.oekonux.org/> which should be published sometime in January.

* Classical oppression and equality

  One person spelled out the classical oppression topics like gender
  or disablement. Race could be probably also added. This persons's
critique in the commons debate was that it doesn't include this type
  of inequality - or rather that it doesn't make inequality a topic.

  I tried to explain that inequality *escpecially* in needs and
  abilities is central to a peer production approach. What is a
project worth where all participants want the same and have the same
  abilities?

That again looks like a caricature. I have never heard any single leftist argue that all people should be "equal" in the ridiculous sense you imply (say, everybody should be male, 28 years old, 175 cm high, brown-eyed, and well-versed in programming, cooking, and Western philosophy). Quite clearly, equality means that everybody should be able to choose how to live their life, where to get engaged and what to do, rather then being prevented or hindered by prejudice, explicit discrimination, or lack of accessibility from doing so. In other words, equality means that everybody should be able to "self-entfalt" as they deem fit. As such, it is an important precondition
of peer production, and is also recognized as such in its theoretical
underpinnings, e.g. in the hacker-ethical position that "Hackers should be judged by their hacking, not criteria such as degrees, age, race, sex, or
position" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic].

However, that peer production gets in right in theory doesn't mean that there are no problems in practice. Quite on the contrary, as anybody who
investigates why there are so (relatively) few women in free software
projects and the Wikipedia will quickly learn. I think its very good that there are some venues for peer production that explicitly care for and address such issues (e.g. FSCONS <http://fscons.org/>), while I have always
perceived your attempts to keep them out of the Oekonux as one of the
biggest weaknesses of that project.

Best regards
	Christian

_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de



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