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Re: [ox-en] Theses about the relation between the Oekonux project and the remaining world

Hi Graham, ThomasUG, lists!

First of all: I argued regarding that specific topic - i.e. the
conference - on [pox] and don't want to repeat that here. In
particular you may want to check out

2 days ago Graham Seaman wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Thomas Uwe Gruettmueller wrote:
[German version sent to [ox]]

The question that occured recently on the [pox] list was not
whether Oekonux is a 'leftist' project or not. Instead, the
issue was that there was an offer to merge the Oekonux
conference with another conference, the 'Austrian Social Forum'.
The ASF will be ten times as big than the Oekonux conference,
and that project consideres itself 'left'. In return, Oekonux
would get almost the complete infrastructure for its conference
from the ASF.

OK, I didn't understand from Stefan's mail that this issue was about the
Austrian Social Forum - I thought the references to the 'left' were to
some small old-style Trotskyist or Stalinist groups, not the movement of
which (in my opinion) we are a part.

Well, Franz Schäfer was proud that the last one "gathered the Austrian

Unless there is something bizarrely different about the Austrian Social
Forum from that of other countries, then of course we should be involved
wsith it. In fact, in a way we already are - I see from
that there will be 50 Linux systems available, free radio groups, etc.
It doesn't seem that the people setting up those Linux systems have a
problem of being 'identified with the left'.

Just in case this has become unclear in some mysterious way: The
theses I wrote down did *not* talk about where Oekonux should give a
presentation or not. I always had the position that everybody who
wants Oekonux gets Oekonux if possible by any means - be it the ASF or
any other left forum, a union, the employer association
(Arbeitgeberverband) or the National Party. This is simply openness
(given someone wants to give a presentation for the National Party, of

So the only question for me is whether we should be involved by the
Oekonux conference being separate, but sending some kind of 'delegation' -
offering speakers etc - or whether we should be involved by being a
sub-part of the ASF meeting itself.

This is exactly the question. In the thread on [pox] I for one always
called for some creative solutions to have Oekonux presentations at
the ASF while the conference takes place 300km away at the same time.

Personally I would have voted to hold the conference as part of the ASF
meeting -

Ahm - you didn't.

and I would have seen this as a step forward for Oekonux. What
better or more relevant audience could you ask for?

I disagree totally with that. In the contrary I'd say: This is the
audience which is already actively approaching us. Why the hell should
we preach to the already converted - or may be the ones which seem
easily convertible?

On the other hand - as I wrote in the mail behind the link above -
IMHO this easy audiences would have cost us a lot.

But actually the Oekonux conferences so far have not been preaching
events anyway. They had a more internal attitude where Oekonux invited
people from all areas of human activity to tell about there doings to
bring the *Oekonux* discussion forward. IMHO a lot of those people
would not come to the ASF (as the one who gives us the rooms and
infrastructure this time already stated...). On the other hand even
radical leftist people would come to a neutral Oekonux conference.
This is my whole point.

But it seems the
decision has already been taken.

In fact this decision has been taken long ago:

So is is still possible for us to be
involved with the ASF in other ways, or are we condemned to splendid

Until now the date for the ASF is not yet fixed. May be there is no
problem at all.

And if so, what is the aim of this conference - to talk about

I think this conference is similar to the first and second. Anyone
interestes may check the web pages

for more information.

						Mit Freien Grüßen



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