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Re: [ox] Re: [ox-en] Theses about the relation between the Oekonux project and the remaining world

Hi Stefan and all,

On Dienstag 07 Oktober 2003 22:08, Stefan Merten wrote:
2 days ago Thomas Uwe Gruettmueller wrote:
The question that occured recently on the [pox] list was not
whether Oekonux is a 'leftist' project or not. Instead, the
issue was that there was an offer to merge the Oekonux
conference with another conference, the 'Austrian Social
Forum'. The ASF will be ten times as big than the Oekonux
conference, and that project consideres itself 'left'. In
return, Oekonux would get almost the complete infrastructure
for its conference from the ASF.

This is not true because this has not been clarified until

Really? I believe to remember that Franz Schaefer said something 
about 150 sleeping places in communal residences.

In particular nobody from ASF guaranteed that for the
speakers of the Oekonux conference there are sleeping places
which equal the value I for one find in someone I would like
to invite to an Oekonux conference. I know from own experience
that leftist projects tend to put no value even in the people
they invite and want to listen to. May be they think that
everybody *must* like camping and school gyms.

Well, I like school gyms (at least if nobody forces me to do PE 
inside of them) ;o) But I should not make a standard out of 

I guess that mass accomodation is clearly not suitable for older 
people, however its absence would be bad as well, as it would 
make the conference unattractive to young participants. The 
first conference was IMHO pretty cool in this regard. Is it sure 
already whether there will be some kind of mass accomodation in 

Maybe you are talking about leftist events that were especially 
designed for youngsters (e.g. the Environmental Youth Congress 
in Hittfeld).

I find that a scandal. If I want to invite someone to an 
Oekonux conference I find value in that person and I for one
feel the need to express that at least in supplying a sleeping
place which meets at least some basic standard.

OK. Why not...

However, Stefan Mn. has categorically denied this offer,
arguing that an outsider might get the false impression that
Oekonux is a leftist project, and some who don't consider
themselves 'left' might even feel not invited.

I'd like to underline that this is not only my phantasy but
this has been expressed by Herbert who offered his
infrastructure for the conference.

I can only find one mail by Herbert in the pox folder, and I 
can't follow what you are referring to.

I think that these fears are farly exaggerated, and that it
would have been possible to clarify within the announcements
that Oekonux is a project that is open for everybody.

So how do you think this should work. Something like: "Look
things are not as you may first think. Though Oekonux has
enough support in other, more neutral parts of society we
decided to abandon this support in favor of the ASF. Yes, ASF
takes pride in gathering the Austrian left. No, we are not a
left project and this is an international conference. Sorry,
we don't understand this either - so please don't ask."

"For practical reasons, the Oekonux conference will be colocated 
with the Austrian Social Forum (ASF), this year. Nevertheless, 
Oekonux and its conferences will stay a project that is 
ideoligically indepandant and open for everybody, including 
those people who might not feel attracted by the ASF."

May be things becomes clearer if we play with the assumption
that a union, a conservative party, the employer association,
[your favorite enemy organization here] would have offered
support by co-locating the Oekonux conference with one of
their own big conferences.

Then, the fact that the previous Oekonux conferences have been 
located in universities might have led some people to the 
conclusion that Oekonux makes a farce out of science as well. 
Today, universities tend to preach mostly things that are 
trivial, irrelevant or even wrong -- in other words: useless. 
Also, the unis are accessible only to an elite group, the topics 
one can study there are very narrow, and the studying time is 
limited. Terms like "studium generale" or "life long learning" 
are incompatible with a studying system that is designed to feed 
capitalism with fresh knowledge workers. Besides that, the 
current educational system is part of the content industry: the 
professors write proprietary books that their students have to 
buy; not only are university scientists allowed to gather 
patents, no, they are even encouraged. So, if you still think, 
that the place of the conference does matter, then please don't 
let it be in a university, again. This would be very bad for the 
reputation of Oekonux.

The people arguing that it makes no
difference in the Oekonux image where the Oekonux conference
takes place: Would you think that for these examples, too?

I am still not convinced, and I don't even object against putting 
the conference into a university again. Let's bring some light 
into those houses of darkness. But you can still try to convince 
me of the opposite.

Thomas }:o{#
-- - - --
"Look! They have different music on the dance floor..."


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