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Re: [ox-en] Nazi in Debian Alert

Well, that's unfortunate, but if the Debian developers don't want to eject
him, what can you do?

I mean, it's not as if Walther is using his position to promote Nazi
ideology is it - or is it?

It's a tough one for free software communities, because what would you
have them do? Stop accepting contributions from him, for example? OK,
but then they're fragmenting the development of free softare and/or
slowing it down. Is it really worth doing that, chucking away his 
contributions just because he happens to be a Nazi? As long as his
contributions aren't actually promoting Nazism in any way shape or
form, it seems like a waste to reject them.

Personally I would not want to work on a free software project with a
Nazi, and if I were in their shoes I'd try to have him ejected. But
that's on the personal level, and on their personal level apparently
they aren't too bothered by it - or not bothered enough to exclude him,


On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 10:55:40AM [PHONE NUMBER REMOVED], Paul Bowman wrote:
On the night of 4-5 Jan I was initialy looking for an online text of the 
(somewhat obscure) nazi Francis Parker Yockey's text "Imperium" which I 
found on the following nazi webite:

I then checked out the site root which puzzled 
me a little bit until I realised that the webmaster was clearly trying 
to present one face tothe world whilst hiding another by the moronic 
"trick" of not putting a link to his "secret" page on the site root. 
(Obviously never heard of search engines... duh!). The horrifying part 
was when I realised that Jonathan Walther (said nazi in question) was a 
current member of the Debian development team "in good standing" so to 
speak. After staying up all night searching everywhere and drawing a 
blank I then passed on a warning to RMS and Bruce Perens. The former as 
"Walther" had rather cheekily put him as the second to last link on his 
top-level page and then openly put a link to a nazi site (Yggdrasil) 
smack bang underneath him (though an atheist by confession, rms is 
Jewish by descent in case anyone hadn't already realised that). I also 
ended up selecting Bruce Perens because I was aware of him through the 
UserLinux list (and the whole "OS vs FS" thingy, obviously) and he was 
the only name that I knew in relation to Debian. Obviously as well as 
any political or ethical issues, there is a personal security issue in 
that Walther may well be passing on personal address and other 
security-sensitive details of folks within the FLOSS movement to his 
"racial comrades".

Since that time, despite a fairly hostile attitude from Perens and the 
Debian crowd ("Let's play shoot the messenger!") they have, from what 
little I can see from the outside (I am not currently a Debian 
developer), completely failed to deal with the issue in any serious way. 
Given that I have allowed them over 2 weeks grace to sort their problems 
out internally (I consider it basic solidarity to allow organisations a 
chance to deal with serious issues internally - though both Perens and 
those Debian insiders I have been in contact with have completely failed 
to show me a shred of even the most basic human solidarity by completely 
disobeying my requests for discretion and passing on my private emails 
to them direct to Walther - and thus, by extension, my mortal enemies, 
endangering my job and potentially, my life - fucking Yanks!) and all 
they've responded with (aside from abuse that is) is a liberal "though I 
find what he is saying distasteful, I defend to the death his right to 
say it" style Californian rubbish, I shall respond in kind with an 
equally inane "liberal" ploy of "the public has a right to know". So now 
you know. Debian harbours Nazis and no they haven't mentioned it in the 
last Debian Weekly News so I thought I'd pass it on.

If anyone wants a full copy of the correspondance between myself, 
Perens, Debian members and the varyingly threatening and pleading emails 
from Walther himself (yes, these cunts gave him my email address and my 
name although all they had to do was ask him to explain the "secret" 
site - there are days when I loathe Americans...), then email me off 
list and, so long as I can check your bona fides and that you understand 
the concept of "personal security", then I am happy to pass on the full 
record that I have.

BTW, if someone could pass on a summary of the relevant information to 
the German language list, I would be most grateful.

Yours for an open source and anti-nazi society,

Paul Bowman

Leeds AFA (in a personal capacity)
Current FS Project:

P.S. I'm away in München for a few days so I'll not be able to respond 
until Friday.



My dad fought the Nazis in world war two. There are good ways and bad 
ways to fight them. Your way is a self-destructive obsession, given your 
age and circumstances, an incurable one.

Debian developers have rules. We don't discriminate based upon belief, 
no matter how disgusting that belief is.

I can't help you. I don't want to hear from you again.

  Bruce Perens

Paul Bowman wrote:

By allowing the original email I sent you to go to Jonathan Walther. 
Please tell me it isn't so.




"it's FREE and we get the ability to modify the source code ourselves,
something that is extremely dangerous to do, was discredited decades ago..."
 - Howard Strauss writing in Syllabus magazine

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