[ox-en] Re: [pox] Please kick and ban Jonathan Walther for racism
- From: Chris <chrisc indymedia.org>
- Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:55:49 +0000
Hi
On Sat 28-Feb-2004 at 07:43:34PM [PHONE NUMBER REMOVED], Stefan Merten
wrote:
Then kicking and banning can only mean to silence
someone by denying write access. This is possible by
adding mail addresses to a spam filter. However, until
now such an action is considered more or less a no-no in
the project and I wonder why some people, who always
complain if such a proposal comes up, now keep silent.
Perhaps because the proposal has never been made against a
racist who is probably also a fascist and a Nazi?
Other cases have probably been grey areas, this case is
black and white.
Also there has been said "I do not want to work with
...". Chris: Can you point out what this means to you
exactly?
I'm not prepared to work on a project that includes
racists. Why should I?
I'm saying all this to say: There is no common practice
of silencing people yet. Until now there are no real
guidelines when someone should be denied write access.
Well now you do need some, mp's suggestion is good:
[pox] oekonux ought to principally distance itself from
racial hatred
All that needs to happen is that the project includes
in its 'mission statement' (if there is one -
otherwise write one) that oekonux distances itself
from hatred of all forms and reserves to the right of
refusing admission to the lists to ppl who are into
that kind of stuff!
http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/liste/archive/msg03755.html
Have you actually looked at his site?
No. And I still don't see a reason for this. This is not
part of the project yet so why should I?
Because this is what this whole debate is about!
Perhaps I you had some idea about what you are dealing
with then you would be in a better position to deal with
this situation.
Also I have to say I'm impressed by Jonathan's courage.
I am really not interested in what Jonathan does or does
not as long as it is not on the lists.
It is also questionable whether he is interested in the
project at all and how long he will stay here if he can
decide himself. On the other hand to arouse suspicion
that he wants to damage the project is a bit far-fetched
- from the facts I saw until now. As I said far more
damage has been done by other people.
Your support for and defence of this racist is doing far
more damage than anything else.
May be this disclaimer is necessary here: Please note
that in no way I defended Jonathan's web site neither
did I condemn it.
Stefan - LOOK AT WHAT IS HOSTED THERE:
* Auschwitz: Myths and Facts, by Mark Weber.
* Facts about Homosexuality, by Fred Phelps.
* History of the Original Ku Klux Klan, by an unknown author.
* Hitler a Jew?, by David Icke.
* How the Jewish Marxists in America destroyed Joe McCarthy, by Scott Speidel.
* Imperium, by Francis Parker Yockey.
* The International Jew, by Henry Ford.
* A Jewish Defector Warns America, by Benjamin Freedman.
* Judaism in Music, by Richard Wagner.
* Leaderless Resistance, by Louis Beam.
* Mini Manual on Survival, by Tom Metzger.
* The Russian Pogroms: a False Accusation, by Goldwin Smith.
* On the Jews and Their Lies, by Martin Luther.
* Protocols of the Elders of Zion, by Sergyei Nilus.
* The Truth About National Socialism, by George Lincoln Rockwell.
http://www.reactor - core.org/secret/
There is more here:
http://www.reactor - core.org/discrimination/
If I look at this question today I see two models how we
can proceed
* make a decision which is part of / implements a
general rule
This is the way it is done in bourgeois logic: There
need to be a general rule / law to judge people by.
Anyone who thinks how this general rule / law could
look like which covers this case: Please come up with
a sane suggestion. I have really no idea.
See above, mp made a very sensible suggestion.
It is clear that he is not hosting this material
because he thinks this stuff is unacceptable --
nowhere does it say this... Tacincala is right:
You host an extensive collection of racist material
on your web site and you ask where the proof is that
you are promoting racism?!
As far as I can see Jonathan denies this and points to
other pages of his own as a proof. Are you sure you took
his defense into account properly?
He is playing games with you, look, he is 'sirdibos':
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.xouvert.org/irc/2004/01/06+sirdibos
He has also made his views very clear on kuro5hin, his
views on immigration:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2003/2/12/1310/11181/114#114
http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2003/2/12/1310/11181/168#168
On gay people:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2003/1/17/154644/788/149#149
On Imperium, the text that started Pauls investigations:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.literature.e-books.gutenberg.volunteers/2012
He has also caused problems on Wikipedia:
Jonathan is not only lying, he has a public history of
flaming both me and other Wikipedia contributors with
virulently anti-Semitic statements.
He has created some rather hateful lies about how
Wikipedia is turning into "Zionipedia" (itself a
blatantly racist statement); he has some clinically
paranoid delusions about how "Zionists" are warping
"Zionipedia". The facts, however, show no such thing. If
people take the time to read the Talk pages that
Jonathan is contributing to, they will see that I also
make a good faith effort to work with others to create
NPOV articles - for instance, see my recent
contributions to the Book of Revelations article and the
Book of Mormon article. In contrast, note that
virtually everyone is opposed to his virulently hateful
attacks, and his distastfeful apologetics for
anti-Semitism within Wikipedia articles.
I have stayed silent on this issue long enough. Time and
time again he is slandering me on this forum, and it has
reached the point of libel. Stop it. And stop it now.
If people on Wikipedia cannot act like civilized human
beings, then leave. But don't use this forum for
repeated libel.
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2002-December/008259.html
I think there is a simple choice either you decide to
allow him to stay on the list and many leftists,
Communists, Socialists and Anarchists that are on
Oekonux lists will leave (this is not any kind of
threat is is a simple statement of fact) or you decide
that Fascists have no place in Oekonux and you remove
him.
I hope I could point out that IMO this is put to simply.
Well perhaps a the simple unsubscribe command will get
through to you?
I'm out of here.
Chris
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