Re: [ox-en] Re: Profits, losses, contradictions
- From: Michael Bouwens <michelsub2003 yahoo.com>
- Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 20:30:58 -0700 (PDT)
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Christoph, Stefan, Franz, and others:
As I understand it, Stefan argues that the free software production model is the germform (http://www.p2pfoundation.net/index.php/Germ_Form_Theory) for a post-capitalist society.
But for Christoph, it is the other way around, free software is used by capitalism, as a germ form of a new kind of capitalism (or perhaps Christoph sees no other kind of capitalism, just the continuation of the old forms?). (http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/Open-Source-Commercialization)
But what if both are true (http://www.p2pfoundation.net/index.php/Peer_Production_-_Immanence_vs._Transcendence). That yes, the post-capitalist forms exemplified in free software (no markets, no pricing, no corporate hierarchy, no firms, etc...), can be a germ form of a post-capitalist society; but at the same time, capitalism is using these germ forms for its own advantage, just as I'm sure, the feudal order originally used the emerging capitalist forms.
There is no iron law of history here. We have an open future (http://www.p2pfoundation.net/index.php/7.1.C._Three_scenarios_of_co-existence)
. One scenario in which the subsystem might one day become the main system (the main logic of the society of the future); or another scenario where the subsystem becomes permanently anchored in a new type of 'netarchical' capitalism? (http://www.p2pfoundation.net/index.php/Netarchical_Capitalism)
What Christoph says has been broadly documented, but so has the opposite. It depends partly on human intentionality and actions, and this is what our action must be about. Not ignoring the potential of the participatory technologies and processes, but using them for the broader goal of a more just and equal society.
Rather than just saying: they're just another capitalist tool ...
Michel
Christoph Reuss <crox iac-research.ch> wrote: Hi Stefan,
6 days ago Christoph Reuss wrote:
Indeed, "privatizing the profits while socializing the losses" has always
been a core paradigm of capitalism.
May be it's the paradigm of every successful movement. Free Software
privatizes the profits while it socializes the losses as well.
However, this time the profits and losses are in terms of
Selbstentfaltung. All the fun goes to the Free Software developers
while wage slaves are (structurally) forced to do the dirty work :-) .
Where in this picture are the _users_ of FS? ("society") If you say that...
> all the fun goes to the FS developers ,
> FS socializes the losses , and
> the losses are in terms of Selbstentfaltung,
...then doesn't it follow logically that the FS users suffer a loss of
Selbstentfaltung and fun? Well, considering the userfriendliness (or lack
thereof) of FS, you may well be right! ;-}
And, once capitalism is gone, who will "do the dirty work" ?
But that's really an interesting thought and may be worth thinking
about a bit longer.
Definitely! ;-)
Then we need to think about what it would mean if the core of a
society would try to integrate the opposite of its core value, or - in
other words - its own contradiction. It would mean that the
contradiction would be drawn in the core of the society. A situation
which is probably not very sustainable. Thus IMHO a movement trying
this can not be successful. It follows logically that a movement which
wants to be successful needs to externalize contradictions to its core
principles.
And that is exactly what people in Free Projects do when they use the
paid for infrastructure given by capitalism. Really smart ;-) ...
It seems that as a rule of thumb, capitalism gives infrastructure only to
those who serve its purpose inasfar as they do. (This can be observed now
even in the Universities becoming commercialized.) That a few developers
managed to out-smart capitalism in this scheme, is an accident of history
which is disappearing over time, rather than a growing trend or "germ form".
The "germ form" is turned into its reverse where capitalists use the free
(as in free beer) work of volunteer programmers in order to make private
profits. That's _the germ form of capitalism in FS_ rather than the other
way around. See Bomispedia, IBM/SUN etc. As capitalism increasingly
deprives people of leisure time and transfers FS-development to paid
programmers in commercial companies (as FranzN described), capitalists
dictate the directions of FS development and deprive FS developers of
their Selbstentfaltung.
Greetings,
Chris
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