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Hi there, "It is the privilege of a child to be the centre of attention, until the next one comes along ..." -- Ivor Cutler Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Michael Hart wrote: <snip>
As far as I can tell, the entire open source movement, whether you are tracing it back through programming to Stallman or though eBooks to me, is based on the logic of creating the symmetrical power structure only available through putting things on the Internet for all to download.
</snip> ... Thu, 25 May 2006 23:43:39 +0000 Christoph Reuss wrote: <snip>
Well, if you will study it in depth, you may find out that it doesn't make a lot of sense... E.g. Quinn's basic claim in the text referenced above is that "Tribalism is non-hierarchical" -- wrong! Tribes have chiefs and clan hierarchies (i.a. in family clans, e.g. parents > children, and oldest sibling > ... > youngest sibling). The hierarchies may be less tall and more informal than in complex civilizations, but that is mainly due to the small population size of the tribe, and it doesn't mean the absence of hierarchy!
'' Re: [ox-en] Multi-local societies and Global Villages '' </snip>It seems as though there's a few with a mind to give Chiron a day off, but joking apart that's what i like about the internet -- Folk taking hope from the things that they have already achieved in their lives, with a mind of using this knowledge for the greater good -- It reminds me of the time i served a three year stretch, learning physics and fagging for the venerable Bede in Durham, or moreover, the many good natured folk i met there.
In the year before my admission, Bede had began a positive discrimination policy towards northern scientists, and had opened the doors a little to comprehensive oinks like me -- being able to catch a rugby ball, opened them a little further.
The northern scientists in the year above me, had been very active in their first years, and had associated and launched themselves as 'the Izal Meds'. Their name sprang out of their initial and on-going reason d'etre -- the thin shiny medicated toilet paper, manufactured by Izal, that haunted the college loos in its less trod corridors -- and their desire to get something softer for every college bum.
When i went up as a fresher, 'the Meds' were already well established -- they had a stand at the freshers' bull ring, and sold political comics, t-shirts, membership and petitions. I swerved them and others but joined the Arthur Holmes geology society.
I first came to the attention of 'the Meds', at Bede bar, checking out the old peculiar, and the students union balloon debate. 'The Meds' had put up a motion, which if passed, would introduce condom machines in to the college. It was before the time of general AIDS awareness, although by months only; the motion sprang out of their laddishness mainly, and was taking some back stick from other conscious college groups.
I was disinterested in the matter, until someone spoke against the motion by saying that if folk were considering entering in to a physical relationship, then they should go seek advice from a family planning clinic.
Good point, I thought.But then this same someone, tried to sneak in an amendment, which if passed would subvert the motion, and make it a tool to install a couple of 2 finger kit kat machines in to the college instead.
So, I laughed and started to tell a story about helping out a mate back home when she sought advice from a family planning clinic. She had had a bit of a rough upbringing to say the least. Her dad lost one of his legs when she was 14 and got his 21 year old work mates to move in with them to help out. The 21 year old had statutorily raped her from that age until she had turned 16 and she told me that she was afraid of becoming pregnant. She thought her fella wanted to get her pregnant to keep her at home. So, she asked me to go down the clinic with her.
I didn't tell the college about my mate's rough upbringing, I just tried to describe accurately what happened in a family planning clinic back then; the form of the investigation, the likely questions, the learyness of the old doctor - jealous of youth. I'd guess some places / drs are like this still.
Anyway I ended up by saying that although a few of us liked kit kats I'm sure, it may be a good idea if we got the college some condoms in case these drunken louts, 'the Meds' got lucky.
The motion got passed and 'the Meds' used to call me 'Marigold' after that; that being the brand of rubber glove I'd spoken of in the physical examination.
-- Act I
Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Michael Hart wrote:On Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Richard M. Stallman wrote:> "We argue that the Creative Commons project on the whole fails to > confront and look beyond the logic and power asymmetries of the > present. It tends to conflate how the world is with what it could > be, with that we might want to be." That is stated in such an abstract way that I can only form a vague idea of what their critique is.Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! * Calling for logic and a look at the assymetries of the power structure could hardly be be more clear. As far as I can tell, the entire open source movement, whether you are tracing it back through programming to Stallman or though eBooks to me, is based on the logic of creating the symmetrical power structure only available through putting things on the Internet for all to download. I can't see what possible problem RMS could have with this.In other words CC are taking practical action with a realworld effect rather than flouncing about doing ideological dreamwork to impress both their readers.Obviously there is a grave concern about the difference betwen "flouncing" and working for "realworld effect." Creative Commons is more into legalisms than "practical action with a realworld effect". . .sorry, but writing legal papers just isn't going to cut it unless they actually create that "practical action with a realworld effect." RMS has more "realworld effect" every time he releases a new program than most political or legal papers writers have in their whole lives.While it is hard for me to tell what the first quote does mean, I don't think your paraphrase is correct.Again, more of the pot calling the kettle black. If you have a point to make, RMS, please just make it, but please stop muddying the waters by saying that no one else makes sense.I'm sure dreamwork is more fun, but this isn't another area where we need theory to eclipse engagement. "Not academic enough" isn't a criticism I've heard of CC before. I have not seen anyone say that now. I think their article is too academic, and thus hard to understand, so if readers misunderstand it that's partly their fault. But I don't think that they are calling on Creative Commons to be more "academic" than it is, or to have less "realworld effect" than it has. I think they're concerned about the issue that also concerns me:What direction is Creative Commons trying to head in? What kind of realworld effect is it aiming for?Yes, I would agree that these are the "real" questions, but I am afraid that the "realworld" answer is not to hold your breath waiting to find out, but to take the real world bit between your teeth and get something done, just as Stallman has done in that arena, not to be confused with his intentionlly confusing message in the political arena. "Just Do It!" ;-) Michael
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