Message 03346 [Homepage] [Navigation]
Thread: oxenT03330 Message: 5/15 L2 [In index]
[First in Thread] [Last in Thread] [Date Next] [Date Prev]
[Next in Thread] [Prev in Thread] [Next Thread] [Prev Thread]

Re: [ox-en] Multi-local societies and Global Villages

[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
I'm always reading my mail in reverse chronological order, so I checked  the neo-tribalism article in Wikipedia and indeed, Quinn's stance is  clearly anti-technological. However, it does mention a moderate  tendency which sees it as compatible with modern technology and society  as well.
  But the key is: 1) people will want to make various choices, and our  society has to be structured so as to allow for such maximum choices;  2) in terms of future social structure: I do not think that either  mass-based structures (such as in industrial society), nor  hyper-individualism, nor the nuclear family, are in any way optimal for  human happiness, but that indeed a combination has to be found between  contemporary conditions and the need for human warmth and connection,  and yes for that to be achieved, an openness to archaic forms, and  creatively re-using them, might be a necessity.
  In many ways contemporary networked technology allows precisely that,  the re-creation of cyberspace collectives that operate below the Dunbar  number, and the combination of physical/cyber connections in  re-creating a more dense social field of connections.

Christoph Reuss <crox> wrote:  Franz Nahrada replied:
we are trying to collect instances where some of the building blocks are
in function or there is potential here:

Thanks for the link.  It would be helpful to put that link on the
entry pages that show up in search engines, such as
so people who look for "global villages" actually find that directory.

The place where I do my work is in Kirchbach Austria
Global Villages are the only
workeable solution that can help us survive the coming economic crash
without getting seriously hurt.

I see a contradiction in this:  If you assume a coming crash, you must
take into account that the global communication networks will also crash;
but the Global Villages concept is _based on_ global communication.

And generally, I think the concept of "hicks in the sticks preparing for
doomsday" is problematic (à la Quinn's neo-Tribalism [1]) and rather the
_antithesis_ of the modern _information society_ that Oekonux envisions.

Maybe you want to build a better instance of a Global Village to show us
the way? I would be glad if you did and let us know.

I take a different approach -- the new society must come from the centers
of hi-tech, not from the remote rims of civilization.  The rims depend on
the centers, at least for technical essentials like computers, cars,
global communications, mass transportation, medical equipment etc.
Who wants to return to the Middle Ages?

only five out of 1000 people in the village are active contributors
to the Global Village project. Still the results that we achieved so far
are amazing. If more people would contribute, we could give the most
powerful example of the world.

Why don't more than 5 contribute?
If you cannot convince more than 5 in 1000 people in your own village,
how can you expect to convince people abroad?

Like every creative person, I could very well use "taxpayers money" at
this point in time  [...]
So by the way this is also an instance where the Producer/Predator Scheme
is falling short. I feel myself as a producer, working partly
scientifically, partly creatively, but in order to achieve the goals that
I have I am in need of resources aka money. Of course I am working in
gathering a bunch of likeminded people, but the point is that most
creative people are doing "their own thing" and have the same hunger for
resources as I do. So if you get voluntary contributions, sometimes you
better watch out. You might end up being "predated".

Actually, this is exactly what P/P criticizes of the status-quo and what
it wants to change:  That the Predators have the power to allocate resources
to the wrong tasks and to play out Producers against each other, forcing
them to quibble for scarce funds instead of just doing their productive work!

So if you get voluntary contributions, sometimes you
better watch out. You might end up being "predated".

Competition among producers for scarce resources is NOT predation!
Predation is grabbing resources for nothing valuable in return.
This creates scarcity!  So to end scarcity, power has to transferred
from predators to producers.  That is the goal of P/P.

Once the producers are in charge, they can end artificial scarcity
and allocate resources in fair, technically & environmentally sensible
and useful ways, i.e. for projects that make sense.

But in order to accomplish that, producers have to build solidarity
among each other, and this works much better in large centers with
modern infrastructure  than dispersed out in remote bush villages.

So it's no big wonder that George Soros and other famous predators
(like Daniel Quinn) promote the "hicks in the sticks" concept.
It perpetuates predator power and binds producer forces in
dispersed dead-end ghettos.  A waste of time!




Neo-Tribalism is the ideology that human beings have evolved to live in a
tribal, as opposed to a modern, society, and thus cannot achieve genuine
happiness until some semblance of archaic lifestyles has been re-created or


Radical tendency

Radical neo-Tribalists, such as John Zerzan, ___Daniel Quinn___ and others
associated with the New tribalists, believe that healthy tribal life can
only thrive after technological civilization has either been destroyed or
severely reduced in scope. Quinn formulated the concept of "walking away,"
abandoning civilization as a whole and constructing a new, tribal culture
on its periphery. Others, such as Derrick Jensen, tend to call for more
violent action, as they believe that it is appropriate and necessary to
actively accelerate or cause a collapse of civilization. Still others, such
as The Tribe of Anthropik take a survivalist bent and believe that a
collapse is inevitable no matter what is done or said and concentrate their
efforts on surviving and forming tribal cultures in the aftermath.

[Daniel Quinn explicitly recommends Alan Weissman's book on the "global
 village" of Gaviotas as a global model to follow.  It remains a mystery
 how more than (at best) 10% of the global population are supposed to
 survive in such archaic villages.  To hell with the other 90+% ?  --CR]

Contact: projekt

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[2 text/html]
Contact: projekt

Thread: oxenT03330 Message: 5/15 L2 [In index]
Message 03346 [Homepage] [Navigation]