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Re: [ox-en] Re: What is profit?



What you are saying now is basically correct, that in the absence of capitalist relations of production there would be no profit, and thus the price that the average person pays for something as a portion of their wage would be lower.

Patrick Anderson wrote:
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 2:12 AM, Paul Cockshott <wpc dcs.gla.ac.uk> wrote:
Patrick Anderson wrote:

for the 'law of one price'
or the rate of profit to approach zero,
the entropy of the economic system would have to be reduced,
 How is this
entropy reduction supposed to occur.

Profit approaches, and can actually reach zero when the Consumer of a
Product is the Owner of the Land and Capital required for that
production.

Again, when the Owners of a cooperative are the very Consumers of it's
output (they needn't be the workers there), then they receive the
product "AT COST" because you must pay the costs of production, but
you no longer pay profit since you Own the Product even before it is
produced.  You don't buy the product, it is already your property!

If you Own a productive Source such as an apple tree, then you receive
the Objects of that production (apples, shade, apple-wood, etc.)
exactly "at cost", without paying profit.  You can't pay profit, for
who would you pay it to?  You don' t buy the apples from anyone, they
are already yours!

This applies to large scale operations as well.

If you co-Own a milk-dairy with 999 other people, you must pay for the
costs of initially purchasing the cattle; the costs of housing the
cattle and storing the milk, for feed, water, any local property
taxes, electricity, fuel, medicine, etc.  You also pay wages to any
workers you hire (the workers might be some of the 1000 owners, but
that is not strictly required) to milk and care for them, etc.

But since you are a real Owner in that milk cooperative, you Own some
of the milk that those cattle produce.  You don't BUY it from anyone,
because it is already yours.  You own exactly as much of the Product
(milk) as you have paid in costs for the Sources (cattle) and
supporting Sources (land, water rights, barns, tools, wages).  If you
are paying to support 1/3 of a cow, then you are the OWNER of the
amount of milk 1/3 of a cow produces.  You don't pay profit because
you are not buying the product, you own the milk even before it comes
out of the cow.

If you co-Own a cell-phone network with 1 million other people in the
same manner, then you must pay for the costs of operation up-front,
but you receive that service "at cost" and pay profit to nobody.

Things will be *much* cheaper this way.  How much cheaper?  Just
subtract the so-called "earnings" that regular corporations report
from the price we consumers pay and you will see that we are
overpaying tremendously for the silly reason that we have not yet
organized to become the owners ourselves.

Let me know if this does or doesn't answer your question.

Sincerely,
Patrick
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de

_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de



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