Re: [ox-en] Re: The Future of Un-Money // was "Re: There IS such a thing as peer money"
- From: Stefan Merten <smerten oekonux.de>
- Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:55:45 +0100
Hi Marc and all!
Sorry for replying to the thread post by post. Bad habit. I reply to
all the remaining posts in this thread in this one.
Last week (8 days ago) marc fawzi wrote:
P2P theories recognize the requirement to keep peer exchange ratios
(inflow/outflow) at near unity (i.e. you get as much as you give) in
order to have a sustainable peer production economy
Well, all I can say that such a P2P theory contradicts observable
reality of peer production (and thus is not a theory worth talking
about). In the contrary the very sustainable economies of Free
Software, Wikipedia and others do *not* require you to give *anything*
to be allowed to take. This applies to the micro perspective as well
as to the macro perspective.
In fact one of the key characteristics of peer production is its
external openness which exactly means "you don't need to give to be
allowed to take".
6 days ago marc fawzi wrote:
Yes, but those processes also have a continuous cost in energy
required to power them (whatever type of energy) and since energy is
finite
Well, on the human scale you can safely assume that energy is
infinite. Converting all matter into energy gives you so much energy
that the universe contracts before this runs out or tears itself away
(depending on which cosmology you prefer).
it has to come from somewhere, which given current technology
In fact technology is an important point here. So if you are haunted
by too little available energy you could probably think of ways of
inventing a technology which solves the problem?
(we don't have zero-cost energy production and distribution, (e.g.
pocket sized nuclear generators that substitute for food,
information, interaction, entertainment, etc, all the things we need
to live which cost energy,) then energy is ultimately taken away from
someone and that someone needs to be compensated in potential energy
If it is excess energy: Why is it necessary to compensate? After all
nobody is taken away something s/he needs.
What you are suggesting is in fact the property model of capitalism:
property as way to exclude others from using something they need. They
are only allowed to use it if they pay you. This is exactly the
abstraction / logic because of which x million children a year suffer
from starvation...
Grüße
Stefan
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