Hi Mathieu, StefanMz, all!
2 days ago Stefan Meretz wrote:
I am interested in having a better ox website.
:-)
I'll also comment on the website here. The book idea is also
interesting but the website is really a pressing topic.
BTW: I started a new top level page in the Oekonux Wiki [1]_ gathering
all the initiatives_ and ideas which came up after the conference.
However, it's not complete yet.
.. _initiatives: http://en.wiki.oekonux.org/Initiatives
.. [1] The top level pages are meant to be mother pages for sub
projects in the Oekonux
Wiki. They are related to but not part
of the core of the Oekonux
project.
In the same manner I created a page gathering all ideas_ about
the web
site.
.. _ideas: http://en.wiki.oekonux.org/Oekonux/Project/WebSite/Ideas
Once again: I'm really open for ideas concerning the website. The
current website - given today's standards - is really bad and
I'm open
to all suggestions.
Before starting with the question of purpose I like to ask
what the main
goal of an oekonux website is and who is to be addressed. If
goal and
target group is clear, then purpose or functions of a website
can be
better discussed IMHO.
Yes.
I am sure, that goal and target group are far from being evident.
Yes.
To raise participation in this process I think it would be good
if we
could have a picture of the opinions about possible goals, target
groups and the like. We could use the Wiki for this because
there is a
voting plugin installed. But first I'll try to make the goals and
target groups more concrete.
Goal
Below I replaced your list, StefanMz, with all the goals I found so
far in the discussion and did document on the ideas_ page. Also thanks
for the extensive list! Gives really food for thought and in a way
says something about where Oekonux could/should go to!
* Get the message out
This would mean in the first place to get the political
message of
the Oekonux project out. As Mathieu I think it should be
done on the
one hand in a more "superficial" way to address quick
readers with
low level of background. And on the other hand it should
be done in
a deeper sense - which would mean to present all the theory
fragments Oekonux developed so far. This would replace
the current
introduction probably.
In any case I think this is one of the most important
goals of the
web site.
* Get new people interested and involved
Well, if people end up on the website and they read a bit
they are
already interested. The question is perhaps: What to do
if they get
more interested - and to me it is clearly a goal to get
them more
interested.
As far as the involvement is concerned: It would be great
to involve
more people in Oekonux. But a short welcome and what they
gain from
becoming part of the community is probably all that is
needed. I
don't want to bother people with "Join the project" all
the time.
I'd consider this also an important goal.
* Inform about peer production
This could either mean to inform about peer production
projects or
about the theory of peer production. The latter I'd
consider being
part of "Get the message out".
The first is more interesting because then we would
qualify projects
- or rather peer production project *groups* like
OpenAccess - as
peer production or not. Similar to the award idea that
would need to
make us think hard about good criteria and sure would be
useful.
Though I think the idea of qualifying projects is good
I'm a bit
worried about the continuous effort this needs to do it
seriously. However, it would take less continuous and
timely effort than the
award idea.
* Foster debates around peer production
As Mathieu I'd think this is the job of the mailing
list(s). So I
think this should not be done on the website (apart from
documenting the mailing lists there).
* Collect theories of peer production
As Mathieu I think there are good resources already for
this - as
the P2P Foundation Wiki. The problem is that these
resources does
not reflect the stricter perspective of Oekonux. If
cooperation is
possible again and Michel allows we could have a category
"Oekonux" in his Wiki.
* Influence politics
Nice thought :-) . However, addressing real-existing
politics /
politicians needs lots of compromises and in the end
would mean a
lot of alienation for the goals of Oekonux as a theory
project. I
think we should stick to the more radical and independent
manner of
Oekonux so I don't see this as a goal.
If Oekonux turns (partly) more into a movement then there
could be
specialized sites, however.
* Evaluate new developments
Similar to the first variant of "Inform about peer production".
* Doing research on questions around peer production
Well, what would research actually mean here? I think on
the one
hand it is creating theory and on the other hand it is doing
empirical research.
Creation of theory is mostly a rather communicative
process. Again
I'd say the mailing list(s) are more appropriate for this.
Documentation of the results on the other hand at least
partly falls
into the deeper part of "Get the message out".
As far as empirical research is concerned: I'd love to
have this in
Oekonux by real scientific standards. But I don't see how
this can
be accomplished becaue we don't have the resources. The
only thing I
could imagine is to suggest empirical research and hope
that some
established researcher picks up our ideas [2]_. *That* on
the other
hand would be very useful to have on the website.
.. [2] See one such attempt_ in the Wiki.
.. _attempt:
http://en.wiki.oekonux.org/Oekonux/Research/MeasuringCommercialInfluences
* Develop an "Oekonux theory"
Similar to "Doing research on questions around peer
production" I
think the developing - or rather: putting things together and
documenting stuff - is more a communicative thing and
thus belongs
to the mailing list(s). Documentation of the results
belongs to the
website as part of "Get the message out".
Well, these are my thoughts so far. Every additional thought is
welcome.
Target Group
Again I replaced your list with the more complete list from the
gathered ideas_.
* The masses
Well, of course this sounds very sexy and a bit like propaganda
(sic!). This would be probably more part of a movement.
The question to me is whether it makes sense to address
the masses
in this sense. So far peer production did well without a
theoretical explanation why it is useful.
Nonetheless as Mathieu I think part of "Get the message
out" should
be understandable by everybody.
* General audience
I understand by this that a general audience is informed.
Which is
probably the meaning of "Get the message out".
* People who like P2P music etc (pirate party voters)
This is probably somewhere between "the masses" and "general
audience".
* Then there are a number of special groups:
* Activists of free/open peer projects
* Theorists of peer production
* People being interested in emancipatory movements
* Politicians
* Other movements
* Hackers, engineers who are not political
* Left political people who have never heard of peer production
I wonder what it means to address these specially. Or
rather: I
think the Oekonux website should stand for the Oekonux project.
Since I like it that the Oekonux project is not a
missionary project
I think the website's goal should not be to address any
particular special group. Rather in general it should be
neutral in this
regard. What do others think on this?
What could be done, however, is to create special pages
for special
groups which make Oekonux easier to access for the respective
special group. For instance for Free Software developers
you could
start with Free Software while the Leftists are probably more
interested in the emancipatory potential of peer
production. I could
imagine this makes sense.
These are only ideas hopefully provoking your ideas.
Any more ideas?
When I think about it and re-read this mail for the fourth time
I feel
I very much think in Oekonux as a theory project. However, since the
first conference there were thoughts to see Oekonux more as a
movement. Today I think something like this is possible.
However, it
seems to me more like two legs of one body. A movement is in a
way a
contradiction to theory because for a movement you need to simplify
things - sometimes beyond recognition...
I don't know, if
this can work in a mailinglist discussion.
Well, the discussion can be here. The documentation I'll do in the
Wiki.
On 2009-05-11 15:55, Mathieu O'Neil wrote:
What purpose should the website have?
I only respond to points which are not covered above.
- Should it be an archive of texts (like now)? In my view there
should of course be an archival section, but as Franz argued
a while
back it should not be a comprehensive archive, this already exists
(P2P...).
The mailing list archives need to be kept. Otherwise see above.
I think the website should have these main functions:
(a) it should articulate clearly how peer production is a
germ form
for a society without exchange - short texts, slogans, etc
The "superficial" (looking for a better word) part of the "Get the
message out" section.
(b) it should have some longer theories to back up (a): this
already>> exists
The deeper part of the "Get the message out" section.
(c) it should provide concrete examples of how peer
production is
working now (free software and hardware)
This is probably the first variant of "Inform about peer production".
(d) it should provide concrete examples of how peer
production might
be applied to other sectors. This is a key point. What can be
done to
extend peer production?
This is more or less the goal of the `drawing board`_ initiative.
.. _drawing board: http://en.wiki.oekonux.org/Oekonux/DrawingBoard
(e) finally, it should offer some means of dialogue between
the ox
community and others
Can you specify what you are thinking of here?
Concretely:
(a) These definitions should be written collaboratively by whoever
wants to lend a hand and then submitted to the list within a
reasonable time frame so that the process does not drag on forever
(b) at this stage it is not cost-effective to redo everything
so I am
thinking we can have links to the old website for particularly
interesting texts
This is mostly a matter of text formats. Some parts are already in
reStructuredText_ and the rest I can convert. And if possible
I'd like
to keep the source in this format [3]_. So this is not a technical
problem.
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html
.. [3] In fact I'm already looking for content management systems
which use reStructuredText_.
(c) pretty obvious, no need to dwell on it - a page of links
would do
(d) I think there needs to be a focused effort by the
community to
come up with short, sharp summaries of how peer production
can start
being applied right now to new areas. For example, there has
been a
discussion on p2p and ox lists about education. But without going
into details about how this would work in a future where everything
is free, how could peer production be used _right now_ in the
education sector?
(e) interactivity will help to attract people. What I
an suggesting
is that people with a strong interest in peer production (basically
anyone on the lists, though obviously people like Christian and
Michel for example (who have big websites) or Smari or
whomever would
agree to debate all comers on an open wiki. This could be
restricted>> to certain days (once or twice a week) during a
month. We would
"advertise" this widely over the net - Oekonux monthly / ?
/quarterly>> dialogues or whatever. We could publish a summary
after each one.
I am happy to help coordinate within reason but (a) (d) and
(e) rely
on community input. If no-one speaks up, I will let it slide -
its
not like I don't have enough to do already...
No, no, let's do this please.
2 days ago Mathieu O'Neil wrote:
Should we tailor a different message for each constituency? I don't
think so.
See above. A special fetching people from where they are could be
useful to guide them to the main stream :-) .
-------------------------------------------------------------
As one of the next steps I could imagine to try some things out on
some play ground. The Wiki looks like the obvious place for me.
I also will consolidate all I wrote above a bit in ideas_.
Grüße
Stefan
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de