[ox-en] Re: Open Money?
- From: ernie yacub <ey openmoney.org>
- Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:08:46 -0800
Hi Keith, other open-money fans, all!
Hi Stefan. Thanks for making this forum available and inviting us in to
talk about money.
Actually I guess you need a relative limited community to make your
social glue work. I guess this is one of the things interesting in
LETS: the social glue they provide to otherwise atomized indiiduals.
In the sense that LETS/cc is a medium of exchange which enables
relationship, i would say you are correct and i hope you will agree that we
are all atomized individuals living in dysfunctional societies.
The function of this glue is only connect. You decide what systems you
want to trade in - some will be small, others may be big and they will all
be limited because they are closed circuits.
> One big problem lies in our general inability to think
> outside the box of national currency systems.
I'd add that our biggest problem lies in our general inability to
think outside the box of exchange systems at all. Can you do that? If
not, why? Actually I think this is the most interesting question at
If you mean getting along without money, that is always an option and will
certainly evolve over time as some networks that start with a cc
progressively do without - it's up to the agreements that people freely
make in their circuits of exchange.
By having repressive forces like police, courts and jails,
or sometime armies they have the possibility to keep people from say
copying banknotes. One major aspect of this is that they are able to
keep money a scarce resource.
That's the nub of the problem - normal money is scarce and getting scarcer
in many parts of the world. Because it is scarce, it is expensive and
debilitating. So what's the solution? We say, free the money, use your
own - why be short of measure if you need to measure something?
This reflects the coercion potential inherent in any sort of money.
Not money that is freely available - no scarcity, no coercion.
Money is nothing but a structural mean to coerce someone to do
something which s/he would rather not to without being paid for it.
Because normal money is scarce, some have too much and most have too
little. We all need it to live so we get it however we can. Thus are we
And now for the question: How do you think your system can stop these
mechanisms, this invisible hand?
See above - LETS/cc means everybody can have access to money and therefore
become less dependent on the normal stuff.
BTW: I'm not very much in favor for all the antis. So my main concern
is not to fight capitalism but to overcome it. In this we may have
different directions anyway. I think LETS / open money may be useful
to some people in capitalism - as I said: They have something. But as
I am sceptical about any system based on exchange IMHO this could only
be temporary solutions. Actually I don't know what you are proposing:
Open money as a aid for people in (a declining) capitalism (unable to
provide things on a regular basis) or whether you're proposing a
society based on open money.
Use it as an aid in getting to the utopian vision, or just to help us all
get along a little better. And yes, we anticipate society based on open money.
> Open money is not a scarce commodity,
Ahm, what? A money which is not scarce is anything but money. If I can
create money by free will out of nothing than what would it be good
for at all?
When you create the money in your network or community, you issue a promise
to redeem that money at the rates you set. Your reputation in that circuit
of exchange is dependent upon you making good on the promise. Your money
is your word.
> it has no price (interest)
Uuh the old Gesellian thesis. Again I'd say that in a society based on
exchange at some point interest is something which can't be prevented
as such a society unfolds.
Just try charging interest on a money that is freely available.
> and cannot be hoarded or used as capital.
Capital is money which is used to create more money. For that aim
hoarding is counterproductive anyway. I can't see why this is not
possible with open money. Why for instance is wage labor impossible
with LETS / open money?
Nobody said it was impossible. Think of it as money. If i want your money
i will work for you. If i don't, i won't.