Re: [ox-en] Free (as in beer) public transport
- From: Graham Seaman <graham seul.org>
- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:00:41 -0500 (EST)
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Russell McOrmond wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Chris Croome wrote:
Hi
I have been arguing for a long time with people that all public
transport should be free,
It can never be free as it takes resources.. The real question is, who
and when does it get paid for.
I happen to beleive that, especially in North America, that
transportation (public and private) is already too highly subsidized.
http://www.flora.org/taxpayer/
Russell, a while ago you said you were a 'left libertarian'. This is LEFT?
a) 'To promote alternative energy and transportation choices which are
more efficient and less costly in terms of short-term and long term costs
to the taxpayer as well as the user'.
So if you find that free public transport achieved this better (as I
suspect it would) you'd go with the free public transport?
But normally when I see 'taxpayers' counterposed to 'users' it just
means 'stop the dirty bums getting a free ride from us respectable folk'.
And if that's what you mean, the ecological argument is just window
dressing.
b) 'shift of taxes off of the general income and property taxpayer and
onto the consumer.'
I know this one; we had it from Thatcher (and I thought Americans got
it from Reagan? is it new in Canada?).
It's code for 'stop the rich from having to pay their way, and shift the
costs on to the poor'. At least in England this argument has been a big
part of what has increasingly polarized society into rich and poor over
the last 20 years, as taxes taken from income (which can be progressive)
are shifted onto consumer goods (where taxes are the same for everyone and
so proportionately higher for the poor).
Saving the ecology and increasing efficiency have been the two big
justifications for the argument; both have been proved ridiculously false.
Ask anyone English a) whether private rail services are cheap and
efficient, and b) whether private cars with non-subsidized fuel improve
the ecology, and just watch their reaction regardless of their politics in
any other direction...
Sorry for the very non-oekonux related rant; you just touched a nerve
there...
Graham
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