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RE: [ox-en] Robinsonades (was: Re: Role of markets)



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what I was arguing for was his 'cap and dividend'

Paul Cockshott
Dept of Computing Science
University of Glasgow
[PHONE NUMBER REMOVED]
www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-list-en oekonux.org on behalf of Michel Bauwens
Sent: Thu 8/21/2008 6:46 AM
To: list-en oekonux.org
Subject: Re: [ox-en] Robinsonades (was: Re: Role of markets)
 
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Hi Paul,

here's the proposal by Peter Barnes, I think it is really very sensible, see
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/peter-barnes-commons-based-carbon-capping/2008/07/19

This excerpt is from Peter Barnes new book Climate Solutions: A Citizens
Guide (Chelsea Green). His 2001 book Who Owns the Sky? presents the
Cap-and-Dividend model or *Skytrust* model in detail.

Via On The Commons <http://onthecommons.org/content.php?id=1343>.

Peter Barnes:

"*Carbon capping comes in three varieties: cap-and-giveaway,
cap-and-auction, and cap-and-dividend. All start with descending caps. The
differences among them lie in who pays whom, and how leaky the caps are. In
cap-and-giveaway, permits are given free to historic polluters. This is
called "grandfathering." The more a company polluted in the past, the more
permits it gets in the future-not just once, but year after year. As the
descending cap raises the price of fossil fuels, everyone pays more, and the
companies that get free permits keep this extra money. Their profits and
stock valuations soar, while energy users bear the costs.*

*In Europe, a carbon cap-and-giveaway program handed billions of Euros in
windfall profits to a few large utilities. In the U.S., an MIT study
estimated that grandfathering permits to American utilities would give them
hundreds of billions of dollars in extra profits every year for several
decades-a staggering amount of money that would ultimately flow to their
shareholders.*

*In cap-and-auction, permits are sold to polluters, not given away free.
Permit revenue is collected by government rather than private corporations.
What government does with the money is then up to public officials. It could
be used to speed the climate transition, though there are no guarantees.*

*In cap-and-dividend, permits are also sold, not given away free. However,
the revenue doesn't go to the government-it comes back in the form of equal
dividends to all of us who pay it. This revenue recycling system is
sometimes referred to as a sky trust.*

*A cap-and-dividend system, or sky trust, is a way to reduce carbon dioxide
emissions without reducing household income. How you're affected depends on
what you do. The more energy you use, the more you pay. Since everyone gets
the same amount back, you gain if you conserve and lose if you guzzle. Thus,
the "winners" are everyone who conserves fossil fuel-plus our children who
inherit a stable climate.*

*The premise of a cap-and-dividend system is that the atmosphere belongs to
everyone equally. Its central formula-from each according to their use of
the atmosphere, to each in equal share-is fair to poor, middle class, and
rich alike. The poor benefit most, however, because they pollute the least.*

*From a political perspective, a carbon cap with monthly dividends would be
the most popular federal program since Social Security. It would lock in
popular support for emission reductions no matter how high fuel prices rise.
On top of that, it would take politicians off the hook for rising prices. If
voters complain, politicians can say, "The market sets prices, and you
determine by your energy use whether you gain or lose. If you conserve, you
come out ahead."*

*To make sure the cap is airtight, there'd be no safety valves or
substituting of offsets for permits. To prevent stalling or backsliding, the
rate at which the cap descends would be set at the outset by Congress, or
delegated to an independent trust. To protect U.S. manufacturers and
workers, carbon border fees would be added to imports from countries with
low carbon prices. We must also change government priorities. This requires
cutting subsidies to fossil fuels and investing in clean energy instead. It
also requires higher efficiency standards*."


On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Paul Cockshott <wpc dcs.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

[1  <text/plain; iso-8859-1 (quoted-printable)>]
The scheme I advocated as a parliamentary candidate
was to give everyone ration coupons and put customs inspectors
at the oil refineries and coal mines who would only
allow carbon out the door if they got coupons in return.

If you did not want to use all your coupons you could
sell them to the supermarkets who would need them for
their transport fuel, and for the fuel used by
their suppliers.

Paul Cockshott
Dept of Computing Science
University of Glasgow
+44 141 330 1629
www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ <http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-list-en oekonux.org on behalf of Michel Bauwens
Sent: Wed 8/20/2008 11:58 AM
To: list-en oekonux.org
Subject: Re: [ox-en] Robinsonades (was: Re: Role of markets)

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fyi on carbon trading:

- http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/008321.html, *How different cap
and
trade programs can all get along, from full series here at
http://daily.sightline.org/daily_score/series/inside-wci

- the carbon taxes road: http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1891/73/

The following sounds right to me:

*"Peter Barnes is right. The best and most efficient way to reduce global
warming isn't a cap-and-trade system that gives historic polluters free
rights to pollute in the future, and it's not a carbon tax that hits poor
and middle-income Americans especially hard. It's a cap-and-auction with
dividends to all Americans. Read this useful guide and see why."

at http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/climatesolutions

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:04 AM, Paul Cockshott <wpc dcs.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

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Eldreds proposals on this struck me as pretty reactionary when I first
read
them.
Far worse than having carbon rationing,
carbon rationing at least allows you to be sure that the total emissions
are correct
price manipulation to ensure this by rental charges is very difficult.

In addition carbon rationing is redistributive in income terms, whereas
his
rent proposals are not.

Paul Cockshott
Dept of Computing Science
University of Glasgow
+44 141 330 1629
www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/<http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/><
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-list-en oekonux.org on behalf of Franz Nahrada
Sent: Tue 8/19/2008 10:59 PM
To: list-en oekonux.org
Subject: Re: [ox-en] Robinsonades (was: Re: Role of markets)

list-en oekonux.org writes:
[1
The points made below are effectively refuted by Zachariah,
particularly the point about equalisation of profit rates.


a more comprehensive summary of the theory pointing at the extensive
theoretical implications of forms of extra-profit with its relation to
rents and monopolies is here (also an older piece)



http://marx101.blogspot.com/2008/03/forms-of-appearance-of-surplus-value.html
 (Mike Roth and Michael Eldred)

Eldred who has finally and in my view "unjustly" abandoned the value
theory of labour nevertheless analyzes the further interplay of these
forms here: (I do not endorse his ideas about production factors or
carbon
sink industry)

http://192.220.96.165/untpltcl/qstnerth.html

Franz


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-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/


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