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Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing as "equal exchange" - respect instead of money

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what you say is completely correct in my opinion. being a programmer i
expect that i will become wealthy easily (which is actually already the case
now). so even though the current system has many advantages for me
personally, logic tells me that such a system cannot be good because there
are other people out there who are less fortunate. so yesterday i had a
funny idea: once i have enough for me i could open a Zero-Dollar-Shop, where
everything is free. I just want to see what happens! I expect some people to
act very silly, spiling goods and so on but i also expect them to quickly
get bored.

What i saw many times is that people act more sane and humane if they are
free to decide: For example when i travel to dresden by train and go back
the same day there is a special one-day ticket that is cheaper than two
rides. but additonally this ticket is valid for up to five persons. so it's
common practice that people wo have such a ticket sell the free spaces to
others. however, when i ask people if they want to travel with me and they
ask me how much they have to pay i say "you're free to decide - it's cheaper
for me either way." and i really mean it. many people react very confused.
it's interesting that all people that i asked so far gave me 5 or even 6
euros. a friend of mine once tried it the capitalist way and tried to sell
the free ticket space for 5 euro. the other person tried to beat it down to
3,80 and my friend disagreed so it was in the end more expensive for both of

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi> wrote:

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I think that we can't purify human nature with logic.

The P2P Energy Economy model (on P2Pf wiki) goes to extreme lengths in some
areas to make sure that the model's logic supersedes human irrationality
the impure nature) but that resulted in one fatal contradiction: people
should be able to give things completely for free without any expectation
(i.e. true generosity) which the model had no way of allowing while also
enforcing equitable exchange. So I've moved away from trying to purify
nature with logic and resorted to the much more limited goal of enabling
voluntary reciprocal exchanges in immaterial resources that are already
abundant (e.g. digital content) so as to have a participatory protocol that
sustains the abundance of the given resource on scalable basis. That's a
much lower intervention than trying to constrain human behavior... and I'm
still thinking about it...

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Stefan Noack <noackstefan

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On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:05 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi>

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Giving and getting recommendations (or respect) in a reciprocal or
generalized exchange is an ancient common social practice.  I can
you if you recommend me back, or I can recommend you without expecting
you recommend me back. This is a common social practice and can happen
reciprocal exchange or as a generalized (non-reciprocal) exchange.

Someone who is highly political can accumulate a lot of so-called
without having any moral or intellectual merit.

Try to solve that!

i.e. how do you ensure that respect in society flows not based on
favoritism but based on rational thought.

My idea was to always have the respect coupled to the action it was given
for; your example is a disadvantage of the respect systems that we have
where the motivation for paying respect can become very irrational.
the respect together with the reason it was paid for would allow me to
evaluate my personal respect to that person based on my personal
However, i have no idea how this could be implemented practically.



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