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[ox-en] Re: [p2p-research] [p2pf] Launch of P2P Research Group



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I am for respecting all "religious institutions" including p2p, academia,
corporations, governments, etc

There are people who believe in and practice the ideologies of p2p, others
who do the same w.r.t. academia, and yet others who do the same w.r.t.
corporations and governments.

It is an issue of religion when you believe in it, practice it and follow
its methods and defend it when others attack it. So I think that's what
we're talking about and working with all religions is a good thing, while
being obviously in favor of your own religion (whatever it may be)

No one is taken seriously in any given institution unless they believe in
and defend that institution or else they're cast aside by most other
believers.

So, again, I think it's important to work with all religions of the mind.


On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Wittel, Andreas
<andreas.wittel ntu.ac.uk>wrote:

This is a interesting question.

As I have hosted the workshop in Nottingham, I 'd like to share my
experience with Nottingham Trend Uni. I asked the IT people to set up a wiki
and was told that this is not possible as NTU wanted control over content.
Obviously the result was a dead web site, suitable for information around
the time of the conference, and dead later.

I would suspect that most unis have this policy. Should Hull be more open,
and open to a wiki, and willing to fund the site, then I would welcome this
and take advantage of it. However if Hull has (1) similar concerns about
wikis as NTU, and (2) does not fund a non-Hull website for the research
group, I would follow Ryan's suggestion to set up the p2p research group
without uni affiliation.

Basically we dont need uni support to set up a research group. But we do
need uni support (in terms of funding) to meet for conferences and
workshops.

One more thing. Ryan said ealier.

On the other hand, lists of  "researchers" meaning people at academic
institutions who write papers for journals seems a failed model

As much as my academic heart agrees with this due to all kinds of
frustrations in this world, I find this a dangerous statement as it puts
universities in the realm of history. Are you really suggesting we dont need
unis any more? How about newspapers? Art? Literature? Sould all this (which
is under serious threat atm) be allowed to be swept away for
non-insitituational knowledge work to succeed?

For those interested in the relevance of history in the information age I'd
recommend Alan Liu (2004), The Laws of Cool.

Andreas

________________________________

From: p2presearch-bounces listcultures.org on behalf of Ryan Lanham
Sent: Sat 18/04/2009 20:23
To: Athina Karatzogianni
Cc: list-en oekonux.org; p2pf yahoogroups.com; Peer-To-Peer Research List
Subject: Re: [p2p-research] [p2pf] Launch of P2P Research Group


Thanks, Athina.  I will do what you say.

 I should note, in the interest of open disclosure, that I have been an
employee of Harvard, Northwestern and Virginia Tech universities.  It would
be disingenuous for me to ride too a horse about  higher ed.

There is a new effort going on now concerning a charter for best practices
in community engagement that may serve as a suitable base; I will post a
link in the next couple of days since I am not as good as Michel at building
stockpiles on de.licio.us <http://de.licio.us/> .

Anyone else who wishes to offer a collaborative foundation, method, or
tools besides a wiki should gather their thoughts and speak out as time goes
forward.

I continue to applaud and welcome the general concept and can imagine the
risks and frustrations associated with moving forward.

Ryan Lanham




On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Athina Karatzogianni <athina.k gmail.com>
wrote:


       Hi Ryan

       I am all for what you propose, please take the initiative.

       I would also like to add here if I may, in response one of your
previous emails, the fact that i happen to be an academic and hull is
interested in supporting this effort (i have kept  chasing them around for
the past 2 years!) is somehow causing political concern in terms of
excluding non academics and other more serious ideological issues, which I
recognize as valid.

       Nevertheless, it feels a constant barrier having to defend any sort
of effort of volunteering my time. Those that know me personally and my work
more generally will know were my political loyalties have been and will
continue to be. They are not with institutions and certainly not with
hierarchies.

       Please take the lead in this, and whoever else wants to take
initiatives they are here to be taken. I am not excluding anyone and neither
does what happens to be my current affiliation. In a way I am trying to say
that this is a research group for p2p researchers, how can it have different
logic and how it can exclude anyone? I have taken it for granted that it has
a peer logic. Doing charters and discussing governance perhaps someone like
you can the the lead in. All I trying to do is set up, host everyone for a
first time in hull to discuss all these issues and create some sort of
governance structure for the group when we meet face to face and get some
funding going.

       Cheers

       Athina


       On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 gmail.com>
wrote:


               Hi Michel,

               Thanks.  A constitution isn't a bad idea, but rather than
one drafter, I'll look for a starting point that is more collaborative and
perhaps an open section of the wiki could be used to gather broad inpur.
 I'd be happy to shepherd and encourage that process.

               Perhaps others with interests in open and collaborative
governance could take significant roles in editing.


               Ryan Lanham
               rlanham1963 gmail.com

               Facebook: Ryan_Lanham




               On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Michel Bauwens <
michelsub2004 gmail.com> wrote:


                       Hi Ryan,

                       I don't think any social or political change project
can bypass altogether all institutions, it needs to work both within and
without. This being said, while aiming for funding obviously demands playing
by some rules, I think that for all participants who believe in the P2P
ethos, no research project can or should be exclusive to academic
researchers. In my view, the new group should also be able to assist
non-academic researchers.

                       Perhaps, we could write a manifesto of sorts, that
would serve as the 'constitution' of the group, which would specific this,

                       Would you be interested in taking the lead in
writing this?

                       Michel


                       On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:37 AM, Ryan Lanham <
rlanham1963 gmail.com> wrote:




                               I applaud this initiative and bravo to those
offering the funding.  On the other hand, lists of  "researchers" meaning
people at academic institutions who write papers for journals seems a failed
model that is less in need of reinforcement than rejection.

                               Research in an academic sense is not p2p,
hasn't been, and never will be.  I would not exclude it, I just would feed
it by giving it additional free assets of prestige and focus without their
earning those resources in open (truly open) communities.

                               Ryan Lanham





                               On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Michel
Bauwens <michelsub2004 gmail.com> wrote:




                                       I´m extremely happy to announce this
initiative, which will enable people interested in p2p dynamics to more
easily appeal for research funding.

                                       B  elow is a short announcement from
Athina Karatzogianni, please ask for the document that she is referring to
in her email listed below. If you are involved with research, academic or
not, please let us know and do forward this message to other networks.

                                       If you have no access to the
attached document, please request one from Athina via email



                                       Michel Bauwens




                                       Text:

                                        "The P2P Foundation <
http://p2pfoundation.net/>  in collaboration with the University of Hull <
http://www.hull.ac.uk/> are creating a P2PResearch Group (P2PRG) with a
physical base in Hull, in order to initiate a material equivalent to the
various virtual networks we are all part of. Some of the goals of the group
are to attract funding to improve already existent infrastructures, create
more material and immaterial networks and hubs and capture funding for
research, conferences and workshops. A conference scheduled for November
will also produce a direct and transparent steering committee to oversee the
various activities of the group. Therefore, it would be particularly
helpful, if everyone, who is interested in participating, fills as much
information as they can, in the document attached, and email it to Athina <
http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/>
 at athina.k gmail.com"

                                       see and forward doc attached (please
edit doc michel as you see fit)

                                       athina



                                       --
                                       Dr Athina Karatzogianni
                                       Lecturer in Media, Culture and
Society
                                       The Dean's Representative (Chinese
Partnerships)
                                       Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
                                       The University of Hull
                                       United Kingdom
                                       HU6 7RX
                                       T: ++44 (0) 1482 46 5790
                                       F: ++44 (0) 1482 466107

http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/







                                       --
                                       Dr Athina Karatzogianni
                                       Lecturer in Media, Culture and
Society
                                       The Dean's Representative (Chinese
Partnerships)
                                       Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
                                       The University of Hull
                                       United Kingdom
                                       HU6 7RX
                                       T: ++44 (0) 1482 46 5790
                                       F: ++44 (0) 1482 466107

http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/






                                       --
                                       Working at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

                                       Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
                                        http://p2pfoundation.net <
http://p2pfoundation.net/>   - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/>  - http://p2pfoundation.ning.com <
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/>

                                       Monitor updates at
http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

                                       The work of the P2P Foundation is
supported by SHIFTN, http://www.shiftn.com/



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                       --
                       Working at
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http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

                       Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
                        http://p2pfoundation.net <
http://p2pfoundation.net/>   - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/>  - http://p2pfoundation.ning.com <
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/>

                       Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

                       The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by
SHIFTN, http://www.shiftn.com/


                       _______________________________________________
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                       p2presearch listcultures.org

http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org







       --
       Dr Athina Karatzogianni
       Lecturer in Media, Culture and Society
       The Dean's Representative (Chinese Partnerships)
       Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
       The University of Hull
       United Kingdom
       HU6 7RX
       T: ++44 (0) 1482 46 5790
       F: ++44 (0) 1482 466107

http://www.hull.ac.uk/humanities/media_studies/staff/athina_karatzogianni/







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