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Re: On-topic and off-topic (was: Re: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please)

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Hi folks

Having read some (but not all!) of the previous messages about exchange and appropriate content etc on [ox] I feel that I should moderate a bit what I said about "groupuscular" behaviour. It is probably appropriate for the maintainer to maintain boundaries and as StefanMn says there are other parallel and "friendly" project where such discussions can fruitfully develop. I guess the problem was more with the tone used and in particular the emotional charge of terms such as "trickery". Probably being more dispassionate and referring to the list or project's founding principles would be less confronting.
But conversely, P2PF people should respect the specificity of [ox] and recognise that it is a distinct though parallel space with its own history. In short: the goals are similar, differences can happen along the way, clarifications should be seen as useful, time will heal ego bruises if goodwill is applied.

----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Siefkes <christian>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:31 pm
Subject: On-topic and off-topic (was: Re: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please)
To: list-en

Hi all,

Stefan Merten wrote:
I remember that in the beginning of Keimform StefanMz, 
Christian and
Benni banned this whole topic of money trickery altogether. 
They were
more clever than me.

I don't think we explicitly "banned" anything, we just defined what's
on-topic for us:

    Es geht um die Überwindung dieser 
warenförmigen Gesellschaft, um die
    Emanzipation der Menschen. Da Neues nicht aus 
dem Nichts entsteht,
    suchen wir nach Ansätzen im Jetzt - jenseits 
von Wert, Markt, Staat.
    Selbstorganisation und Selbstentfaltung sind 
für uns zentrale

    Hier hören die Gemeinsamkeiten auch schon 
auf. Wir haben
    unterschiedliche Vorstellungen, welche 
Denkformen, Theorien und Praxen
    nützlich sein können. 
To translate roughly the core points: "We have more differences that
agreements among us, but we agree on the goal of human 
emancipation, of
leaving commodity production behind us. Since the new doesn't 
emerge out of
nothing, we're looking for seeds of the new in the old. For us, 
the new is
not based on value, the markets, or the state, but rather on
self-organization and 'Selbstentfaltung'."

So if somebody aims to just transform the old (a different kind 
of market,
of money, or of state) that would be off-topic for us. I think 
that every
project has some kind of topic definition, sometimes explicitly 
stated,sometimes implicit, and the project will run more 
smoothly if contributors
keep this topic in mind.

Best regards

|-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- christian -
|   Homepage:  ; 
|   Blog:
|   Better Bayesian 
Analysis:           |   Peer Production Everywhere:
|   http://bart-            |
|------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 
0x346452D8 --
Whenever philosophy has been taken seriously, it has always been 
assumedthat it signified achieving a wisdom which would 
influence the conduct of
        -- John Dewey, 
Democracy and Education

Dr Mathieu O'Neil
Adjunct Research Fellow
Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
College of Arts and Social Science
The Australian National University

E-mail: mathieu.oneil
Tel.: (61 02) 61 25 38 00
Mail: Coombs Building, 9
Canberra, ACT 0200 - AUSTRALIA

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