Re: On-topic and off-topic (was: Re: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please)
- From: "Mathieu O'Neil" <mathieu.oneil anu.edu.au>
- Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:26:48 +1000
[Converted from multipart/alternative]
Having read some (but not all!) of the previous messages about exchange and appropriate content etc on [ox] I feel that I should moderate a bit what I said about "groupuscular" behaviour. It is probably appropriate for the maintainer to maintain boundaries and as StefanMn says there are other parallel and "friendly" project where such discussions can fruitfully develop. I guess the problem was more with the tone used and in particular the emotional charge of terms such as "trickery". Probably being more dispassionate and referring to the list or project's founding principles would be less confronting.
But conversely, P2PF people should respect the specificity of [ox] and recognise that it is a distinct though parallel space with its own history. In short: the goals are similar, differences can happen along the way, clarifications should be seen as useful, time will heal ego bruises if goodwill is applied.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Siefkes <christian siefkes.net>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:31 pm
Subject: On-topic and off-topic (was: Re: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please)
To: list-en oekonux.org
Stefan Merten wrote:
I remember that in the beginning of Keimform StefanMz,
Benni banned this whole topic of money trickery altogether.
more clever than me.
I don't think we explicitly "banned" anything, we just defined what's
on-topic for us:
Es geht um die Überwindung dieser
warenförmigen Gesellschaft, um die
Emanzipation der Menschen. Da Neues nicht aus
dem Nichts entsteht,
suchen wir nach Ansätzen im Jetzt - jenseits
von Wert, Markt, Staat.
Selbstorganisation und Selbstentfaltung sind
für uns zentrale
Hier hören die Gemeinsamkeiten auch schon
auf. Wir haben
unterschiedliche Vorstellungen, welche
Denkformen, Theorien und Praxen
nützlich sein können.
To translate roughly the core points: "We have more differences that
agreements among us, but we agree on the goal of human
leaving commodity production behind us. Since the new doesn't
emerge out of
nothing, we're looking for seeds of the new in the old. For us,
the new is
not based on value, the markets, or the state, but rather on
self-organization and 'Selbstentfaltung'."
So if somebody aims to just transform the old (a different kind
of money, or of state) that would be off-topic for us. I think
project has some kind of topic definition, sometimes explicitly
stated,sometimes implicit, and the project will run more
smoothly if contributors
keep this topic in mind.
|-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- christian siefkes.net -
| Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/ ;
| Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
| Better Bayesian
Analysis: | Peer Production Everywhere:
project.com/ | http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
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Whenever philosophy has been taken seriously, it has always been
assumedthat it signified achieving a wisdom which would
influence the conduct of
-- John Dewey,
Democracy and Education
Dr Mathieu O'Neil
Adjunct Research Fellow
Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
College of Arts and Social Science
The Australian National University
E-mail: mathieu.oneil anu.edu.au
Tel.: (61 02) 61 25 38 00
Mail: Coombs Building, 9
Canberra, ACT 0200 - AUSTRALIA
Contact: projekt oekonux.de