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Re: [ox] Re: [ox-en] goal of oekonux, theory vs. practice, the new social movements and the left

    "different society") can not exist in a complete void. theory must
    be aplied to practice to test it, find errors, correct it, etc..

I think we are doing this all the time. Right now I'm hoping to find
some time to carefully work through the Debian Constitution - just for

for instance: if e.g. someone who has indepth knowledge about that
constitution (e.g. if he/she helped to design it) would be on the list then
you would not have to do that. someone else working in the field could
contribute it competently.... so people working in other fields (even fields
you do not know of yet or fields where you, at first glance, do not see how
the theory might be applicable at all) could contribut to oekonux as well.
the only thing is: these peope must be involved with the project..

The *path* to a new society is the most difficult thing at all. IMHO
the transformation of a society is one of the most complex things
mankind can experience at all. I wonder how this can be predicted
seriously at all.

i am not talking about prediction. i am talking about people working on that
extremly complex task. and it needs many people working on it.. this is the
idea behind the social fora. to bring this people together...

To prevent misunderstanding: That does not mean to be passive - just
that it is not predictable where activity is needed tomorrow. At the
moment it is needed for all the questions about software patents,
copyright and the like. If you want my opinion on where to engage -
there. If you want to have that on the ASF - go and invite someone
from the FFII and/or the FSFE.

actually i do not need to invite someone as i was lobbying in bruxelles
myself.. nontheless (cause the topic is so important) i will try to invite
some people who where there with me...

but besides that i think even more important is to discuss with the people
at the ASF the importance of free software as an example for a different
society.. the patent thing was more or less just a necessary boundary
condition that free software can continue to exist. what is need is that the
people at the social forum understand why this has way more importance then
just the question of if there desktop will show a pinguin icon or not...

Admittedly I have not really been interested in social forums yet.
They appeared in one of the two classical left news paper I have
subscribed - where Oekonux never appeared and I think won't ever
appear though I gave them pointers for the first conference. To me it
looked strongly like more of the same in a more modern shape. The few
things I read on the Web backed this impression. Sorry, but this is my

  interestingly the left newspapers that i have subscribed have started to
write about topics covering free software long ago...

    it should be evident that both groups are of interest to the oekonux
    project if "a new society" is the stated goal of oekonux.

This is *not* the stated goal.

it is sated at the web page:

   In Project Oekonux different people with different opinions and different
   methods study the economic and political forms of Free Software. An
   important question is, whether the principles of the development of Free
   Software may be the foundation of a new economy which may be the base for
   a new society.

(here it is stated as a hypothical question "whether...". so i asked it
practice is also included in this. you answered that pracsis is the basis.
of cours it is as free software is pracsis. you did not answer of the
implementation of the theory of oekonux is desired. yet many here assume it

As Graham said this does not mean that people on Oekonux may not have
that goal individually. I for one have it. But I find Oekonux more
valuable *for me* if my goal is *not* Oekonux' goal.

this is the point. without oekonux having practice (of implementing
principles of free software in society) included as a goal it will stay


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