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Re: SpamAssassin and OHA (was: [ox-en] SpamAssassin (was: OHA/ODA in English))

* Ref.: »Re: SpamAssassin and OHA (was: [ox-en] SpamAssassin (was: OHA/ODA in English))«
*        Graham Seaman 	(2003-12-15  08:33)

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Casimir Purzelbaum wrote:

I think -- even more than you do -- that alienation is the
key aspect here: Who would need a rule if everybody would
know to behave himself as to not alienate himself from the
community of the people he lives in?  (and if the community
would take care of not alienating itself from itself...)

If there was a "mechanism" ensuring non-alienation you would
not need any rules, but you could observe rules (just as 
you can observe rules in sciences).

In other words, you would replace censorship with
self-censorship and external discipline with internal

Not at all!  

Internal discipline is based upon 'rules' as well as external
discipline is based on 'laws'.  And I was going for a "fantasy"
;-) against rules here.  How would you call, for instance, an
instinct?  Is this internal discipline?  I'm not trying to say,
that people should forget about thinking'n all and follow their
so-called instincts instead.  What I'm trying to say here, is
that reason and feeling could evolve generally to a degree, where
they work without rules, discipline, punishment or control.
Along with the conditions of life that are the basis for this or
that way of interaction in society and reflections about it.

You would also need to remove one of the most obvious features
of free-software-like groups: membership of multiple
overlapping groups (I'm trying to avoid 'community' - too many
unrelated 19th century gemeinschaftlich associations). Because
if I'm a member of both software using groups and a
virus-writing group, how do I avoid alienating myself from 'the

Depends on your understanding of group.  I did choose "community"
because it can be understood on a small and on a large scale.
And the "ultimate" community I meant in the above, is human
society as a whole.  Whatever we call it, it seems to be clear to
me that at all levels in our current situation this community is
alienated from itself -- and so are it's members (of all levels).

(I suspect, that even though there is no better translation,
"alienation" and "Entfremdung" are not really adequate...  I
suspect that the "alienation" (=Entfremdung) that I meant is
somewhat more "intrinsic" than the common understanding of
"alienation" in English ;-)

But to answer the question ;-) :  You can only avoid alienating
yourself (or being alienated) from a group when they feel fine
with your "other" activities.  And why should they not?  (Again,
I'm not talking about todays conflicts, but about the question
whether they are "generally" "necessary" or not...)

Reluctantly, I find myself on the side of 'rules'. I hope
someone will convince me out of it ;-)

...not sure if I can manage, but I'll try ;-)


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