Re: The nature of apple trees (was: Re: [ox-en] apples and moonfruits)
- From: Diego Saravia <diego.saravia gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:23:09 -0300
[Converted from multipart/alternative]
There are those apple trees (aka captialism or any exchange based
system) and these apple trees have lots of drawbacks.
capitalism is a particular case of an "exchange based system"
money trickery basically say:
money is a particular mean for establishing an "exchange based system"
So you come to the next question: if you cannot abolish money,
abolish money? why?
such as for example its
infinite growth mechanisms,
infinite growth is part of life systems, our society is only an example of
or its engineered scarcity?
scarcity is not engineered, is a basic part of every life or ecological
Both aspects are part of the nature of the apple tree / exchange based
not only that particular systems.
You can not remedy
scarcity is not illness, is normal behaviour.
without scarcity we will have more fast growing systems.
IMHO every person has to make a choice. Either to engage in the
classical political movements fighting for more money with some hope
to be effective. Or to fundamentally modify the money system which is
pointless. Or - and this is the real alternative - to engage in
helping the birth of a new society beyond the apple tree system which
is clearly the way to go.
why do you see money as a problem?
the problem of capitalism is exploitation, "money trickery" and "money
extrange loops" are part of that problem, but you can have other money
in other forms of exploitation or cooperation
Indeed, we cannot wait until the 'multitudes' take political power, but
have to construct new social relationships in the here and now, conditio
sine qua non to be strong enough one day to achieve a phase transition.
yes, like freee software jiujitsu with copyright, that is a good idea, but,
by now, we dont have any strategy or idea to actual do it. (I am speaking of
Sure. Though I am the maintainer of this project I get nothing
valuable back in the sense of the apple tree system. I don't get paid
for the hour it took me to write this mail. Neither you are when you
wrote the mail I just replied to.
and that is ok, why could you be paid for that?
Exactly, that is exactly the pluralist economy preference of the P2P
Foundation, to reduce the role of exchange to a minor subsystem.
why? exchange is the basis of prosperity and productivity
p2p is a way of putting internet to help in creation of material and info
goods, nothing more, nothing less
NO FUNCIONA->dsa unsa.edu.ar
Contact: projekt oekonux.de