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Re: [ox-en] Re: The nature of apple trees



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On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 5:03 AM, Diego Saravia <diego.saravia gmail.com>wrote:

important design rules that favour certain logics over others,

what rules and logics do you think  are favored?

perhaps in these rules we can find what is needed to change about
money and what not


interest-based money carries an obligation of perpetual growth and favours
unequal accumulation, giving more and more power to the money holders

fractional reserve banking leads to hyper-leveraging and the disastrous
financialization that just led to a meltdown

I collated a lot here at http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Money

I would see a 3-fold strategy:


   1. Better redistribution of the existing
money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Policy>
   2. Transformation of the monetary
system<http://p2pfoundation.net/Monetary_Reform>through the social
production of money
   3. Alternatives to money: Peer
Production<http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production> ;
   Gift Economy <http://p2pfoundation.net/Gift_Economy> ;
Sharing<http://p2pfoundation.net/Sharing>;
   and other ways to assist in a transition to a more Resource Based
Economy<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Money?title=Resource_Based_Economy&action=edit&redlink=1>through
Peer
   to Peer Exchanges <http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_to_Peer_Exchanges> and P2P
   Exchange Infrastructure
Projects<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Exchange_Infrastructure_Projects>

I like Bernard Lietaer: The Four-tiered Monetary System of the
Future<http://p2pfoundation.net/Four-tiered_Monetary_System_of_the_Future>,
because it recognizes the different levels:

"The first tier of this monetary structure would be a ‘global reference
currency’, which is not linked to nation states as such. This currency,
which is what the Terra <http://p2pfoundation.net/Terra> is supposed to
evolve into, is there to provide a steady reliable type of money that can be
used for international trade. The Terra will be based on internationally
traded items like gold, copper, and wheat. It appears that Lietaer believes
that this kind of new world currency could morph into being from various
corporate scrips used in cashless trade between businesses today.

A second tier in this monetary structure would be, for example, certain
multinational currencies utilized by what would be deemed as
geopolitically-close countries. This could include say the NAFTA dollar, the
Euro, and an ASEAN (the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations)
currency.

On the third level, we have some remaining national currencies which run
within or outside the multinational currency regions. But this time,
individual states no longer have the monopoly in issuance of currency.

At the fourth level, we have CCs/new money as has been discussed. To
Lietaer, these CCs could have an expanded role and greater influence, as
they may be widely used and exchanged through community internet clearing
houses. The Terra, as it is envisaged now, would have evolved from this
category. What we need to look at in some detail is what the Terra is and
how this may affect its future as a world reference currency"


The fourth level is the level of distributed money creation, the social
production of money by civil society and the specific p2p-level of
distributed infrastructures.

We need this: The Metacurrency
Project<http://p2pfoundation.net/Metacurrency_Project>:
the tci/ip platform for diverse currency creation


Finally, background reading:


   1. Money is not the Only Value Measurement
System<http://p2pfoundation.net/Money_is_not_the_Only_Value_Measurement_System>.
By Geoff Chesshire.
   2. Why Peer to Peer Currencies will
Grow<http://p2pfoundation.net/Why_Peer_to_Peer_Currencies_will_Grow>
   3. Bernard Lietaer: The Four-tiered Monetary System of the
Future<http://p2pfoundation.net/Four-tiered_Monetary_System_of_the_Future>
   4. In his landmark essay, Valuing the Ethical
Economy<http://p2pfoundation.net/Valuing_the_Ethical_Economy>,
   Adam Arvidsson explains why we need Wealth Acknowledgment
Systems<http://p2pfoundation.net/Wealth_Acknowledgment_Systems>for the
Ethical
   Circuit of Value <http://p2pfoundation.net/Ethical_Circuit_of_Value>
   5. Must reading: Charles Eisenstein on Why Demurrage needs to replace
   interest <http://realitysandwich.com/money_a_new_beginning_part_2> (see
   the entry on Demurrage <http://p2pfoundation.net/Demurrage>). Also: Money
   and the Crisis of
Civilization<http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_and_crisis_civilization>on
why the current crisis is also an endgame.
   6. The case for open
money<http://www.gmlets.u-net.com/explore/sustain.html>.
   See also: Open Money Manifesto <http://openmoney.org/top/omanifesto.html>]

   7. Ran Prieur: Fire vs. Water
Economies<http://p2pfoundation.net/Fire_vs._Water_Economies>,
   and the role of Demurrage <http://p2pfoundation.net/Demurrage> in this
   tradition.
   8. Essential theoretical and historical introduction to the long term
   history of money and debt, as rooted in social violence, by David Graeber at
   http://www.metamute.org/en/content/debt_the_first_five_thousand_years
   9. Eric Harris-Braun on the necessary Difference between Multi-currency
   Platforms and Market Making
Platforms<http://p2pfoundation.net/Difference_between_Multi-currency_Platforms_and_Market_Making_Platforms>


Also:



   1. Rationale for Monetary
Reform<http://p2pfoundation.net/Rationale_for_Monetary_Reform>by Greg
Martin.
   2. Monetary Transformation, not Monetary Reform, is What is
Needed<http://p2pfoundation.net/Monetary_Transformation,_not_Monetary_Reform,_is_What_is_Needed>.
   By Thomas Greco.
   3. Why the Growth Imperative is Linked to our Monetary
Format<http://p2pfoundation.net/Why_the_Growth_Imperative_is_Linked_to_our_Monetary_Format>
   4. Declaration Of The Universal Right Of Monetary
Creation<http://p2pfoundation.net/Declaration_Of_The_Universal_Right_Of_Monetary_Creation>and
the Open
   Money Manifesto <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money_Manifesto>
   5. Peter Koenig's <http://peterkoenig.typepad.com/> summaries on the
   History <http://www.p2pfoundation.net/History_of_Money> and
Future<http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Projections_on_the_Future_of_Money>of
money
   6. The Future of Money
<http://www.mindjack.com/feature/futuremoney.html>by Paul B. Hartzog
   7. Capital, Profits, and
Interest<http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tucker/tucker18.html>.
   Benjamin Tucker.
   8. Chris Cook: a proposal for Open
Capital<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Capital>





what problems do you see with debt created money?
do you know a better solution?

of course economist understand it even less, because their job is mostly
ideological,


to have an ideological job do not mean non-understanding


Not necessarily, you are right, but the whole discipline of neoclassical
economics is based on false premises, that everybody knows yet continue to
be its axioms

as recently written:

"If economics was actually a science it would have undergone a progression
of theory development where only those theories that provide reliable
predictions of behaviour would be retained and unsuccessful ideas would have
been rejected. Obviously this has not happened. (As an article in the
journal *Scientific American* described it, "The Economist Has No
Clothes<http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-economist-has-no-clothes>
".)

As Dean Baker has often documented on his blog, they have an absolutely
dismal record of mispredicting economic events and their collective advice
has led to 30 years of increasing inequality and stagnating wages for the
working population of the world








--
Diego Saravia
Diego.Saravia gmail.com
NO FUNCIONA->dsa unsa.edu.ar
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-- 
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