Re: [ox-en] "selbstentfaultung (self-unfolding)"
- From: Stefan Meretz <stefan.meretz hbv.org>
- Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:38:18 +0100
Hi self-unfolders;-))
B. Fallenstein wrote:
>>>On the contrary to this "Selbstentfaltung" -- self-unfolding
>>>(self-development?) -- means a completely different thing: I only can
>>>come forward, can express myself, can be productive if others do the
>>>same for themselfs. More sharper:
>>>
>>>**The self-unfolding of others is a precondition of my
>>>self-unfolding.**
>>>
>>Is this within the meaning of the word "Selbstentfaltung", or more of
>>a claim or a logical deduction or implication? And how is that last
>>statement (**) true? Seems like it would never happen if it was. Is
>>something being lost in translation that would make that seem more
>>sensical? Or maybe you mean something more like a mutual condition
>>rather than strict precondition.
>
> Hm, I remember it the other way around:
>
> The selbstentfaltung (self-unfolding) of the individual is the
> necessary precondition for the selbstentfaltung of all.
>
> But I really think that the point is it's a chicken-and-egg thing. Or
> maybe rather: a scale. I can do something that's a bit of
> selbstentfaltung for me, but in order to get to the point where I do
> most things out of selbstentfaltung, it's a necessary precondition
> that others are helping me, aiming to archieve *their*
> selbstentfaltung. It's like this with free software: I can be the only
> person in the world writing free software, because I believe in it and
> I feel better about it and it's more fun than writing proprietary
> software... but if others join in and we build something big together,
> we'll archieve so much more *and* it'll be so much more fun.
StefanMn already showed the origin at Marx' texts. You are right (some
of you said so): The selbstentfaltung of the individual is the necessary
precondition for the selbstentfaltung of all.
What I did was to formulate this sentence from _my_ perspective to
contrast it with the perspective I "usually" in our society have: Anyhow
others feel, act, think -- I don't mind, I do it my way. This is the
normal way of "expansion on costs of others".
Selbstentfaltung is a completely different perspective on others: I need
them not only as they are. For me, for my self-unfolding I need them
self-unfolding (I can't use the german word, because I need the gerund
form here which in german is complicate: "selbstentfaltend").
So I would say that there two different perspectives: The view on the
entire process (standpoint of 3rd person), and the view from my
standpoint (standpoint of 1st person). And "my" is meant as a general
"my" (not meant as personal my, StefanMz's perspective). We often try to
take this general my-perspective in the german list: It is very
fruitful. We _are_ the process, and we look on the processes.
And I agree with Benni: We should set the meaning of selbstentfaltung
(self-unfolding).
Ciao,
Stefan
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