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Re: [ox-en] Primacy of Contract WAS Re: Primacy of State


Mon, 8 Sep 2003 Graham Seaman wrote:

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Adam Moran wrote:

2. 	Primacy of State

on this issue of 'Selbstentfaltung', can i asked the german language speakers for further explanation ? - the issue that concerns me when i read the english translation, 'self-unfolding' , is i can't find anything to do with the 'community-unfolding'

I'm not a German speaker (I hope one will reply later ;-)
but my understanding of this from previous discussions is that:

- self-unfolding is inseparable from community-unfolding

thanks graham - i take this point; how can the self unfold into a community, without a community unfold into the self ... and visa versa ?

what i mean by 'primacy of state' would be better understood if termed 'primacy of contract' ... the contract between the 'I' and the 'We'

i imagine nomads, short of food / in need of rest, being accepted on to settled land by its inhabitants ... on the understanding that they do work / pay rent and protect the landlord's land ... the feudal mode of production is born

what are the politics, the relationship between the 'I' and the 'We', of feudal states ? when ever one class pumps labour out of another then the politics of the state is of class dominance and therefore we have a state of class antagonism

what about the capitalist mode of production ? the serf class are fed up (fix and fertig ) with the landlords / guild masters, and get lured into a better contract with merchant capital ... on the understanding that they produce commodities, re-produce the capital invested and produce profit for the capitalist ... the capitalist mode of production is born - better deal huh :( fix

what are the politics of the capitalist state ... well, ditto feudal above - class antagonism :(

but what about our mode of production ? the working class are fed up with the capitalists and start writing to each other on the internet :)

some of us decide to share our information freely because that’s the way were brought up :)

some of us learn to share our information freely because we learn from others how productive it is, and it feels good ;)

some of us find we have common aspirations and define and achieve telos *g*

what are the politics, the relationship between the 'I' and the 'We', of our new states ? do the states have a class composition ? no - who would have thought that ?

marx and engles did - this is pretty much all they wrote about - they where scholars of aristotle and had read 'the politics'

curiously but not so curiously when you think about it, that's what the bible's about; a progression from the garden of eden, into slavery and oppression and then out the other side in cities - the bible's not reactionary either ... no going back to the garden of eden in this book - the telos is to live in peace in states - how can it be any other with population expansion ?

don't get me wrong; i'm not a big fan of the christian god, but i don't blame 'him' for the problems of this world, i blame men

Yep, I think this again would be one of the commonest oekonux-ish views.
It's something I've had real doubts about which I haven't ever been able
to get over to anyone else, so I'll have another try (though Benni
Baermann's '8 theses on liberation' which I put a draft translation of
into the subversion directory may be relevant here)

- all previous revolutions have claimed to be about freedom for everyone,
but turned out to be mainly about freedom for one group only, so it's neccesary to be suspicious of any claims like the above

- this one is being preached by a group of highly technically skilled people. Just the kind of group that might end up as a new class

i really don't think there is a class composition to the states formed in our mode of production - as long as we are open, reputation is based on pier-review ... and it's impossible for me to imagine a hierarchy in n-dimensional space – I guess that’s one of the reasons for forks … although, like us all, i'm much more interested in mergers ;)

- how to harmonize living standards in different parts of the world which
are starting from very different points (eg. how much transfer does there need to be from Europe to Africa)

sure, this is why the sooner we start the better - i didn't want to tell you this before i got to know everyone better but i've got a reason for take in part in our discussions; i want to write a part of our telos if we end up doing something a bit more concrete - i've got a sister and she's dying of a big disease with a little name – aids

living with death is depressing - depressing for the dying; depressing for the living - one tries to find hope in all around them - during the recent anti-patent lobby in europe it dawned on me that my sister has hope of treatment if we could put an end to this idea that information is property - not only would we be able to afford the drugs but the drugs would be produced in our new mode of production; a production with a telos; a production with an end - imagine that, drugs that work !

may be it’s a big dream for us to get started with these tasks so soon; to me it seems a natural extension of the dream we are already living

i won’t harp on about my sister any more other than to tell you her name and tell you that she got aids through no fault of her own; she was violently and repeatedly raped whilst only a child – her name is africa



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