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Re: [ox-en] Alternative currencies and Oekonux

Hi magius and all!

Last week (11 days ago) magius wrote:
Imho you're going around the problem. i wish to put it to you
*brutally*: how do you take bread to live? finding bread is necessary.
how do you solve this problem? working in the capitalistic system.
that has probably nothing to do on how free software "works" ;-)

IMHO Nadav gave some good points here so I won't repeat them here.
Especially the idea with the viruses is interesting. Indeed author of
viruses probably experience some Selbstentfaltung in what they do.
However, nowadays viruses more and more become facilities to make
money - for instance by opening back-doors for distributing spam :-( .
Even there you can see how alienation works...

Last week (12 days ago) magius wrote:
Also me, I agree Free Software is not exchange. But there's a sort of
"sliding doors" system between Free Software and Capitalist exchange.
Free Software without Capitalism will not survive.

I'd agree for our time. If you take the five-step model as for
instance laid out on

then I'd say that Free Software is somewhere at the beginning of the
third step. A full scale economy of a GPL society - or for any
fundamental different societal form for that matter - will be reached
only in step five.

As often I'd like to go back to the last change of an era: Feudalism
to capitalism. Of course the early forms of capitalism were not able
to survive on their own. They settled first in niches where capitalist
production were superior - namely production of textiles. Another
niche where the feudal system were weak at the time when capitalism
was on the rise seems to be the United States. I'm not really good in
US history but from what I understood I think the US were a place
where the germ forms of capitalism really grew.

Of course these germ forms needed the feudal societies - as well as
the feudal societies needed the germ forms more and more - for
instance to wage wars. However, today capitalism took over the whole
system - the germ form took over.

So to get back to your question: Of course it is important to find
bread. However, how this search is done and how it can be successful
is completely determined by the society you live in. For instance I
guess you don't look for bread most of the day, actually. You probably
get some money from somewhere - may be an employer - and then go to a
baker and buy some bread. In other words: In our societies finding
bread has nothing to do with the bread itself. I think in the GPL
society this will be different again. To me it is most likely that you
still go to a baker or similar facility and just take what you need.

						Mit Freien Grüßen


Contact: projekt

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