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Re: SpamAssassin and OHA (was: [ox-en] SpamAssassin (was: OHA/ODA in English))

Graham Seaman wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Martin Hardie wrote:

On Monday 15 December 2003 15:33, Graham Seaman wrote:
In other words, you would replace censorship with self-censorship and
external discipline with internal discipline...

sounds like Foucault/ Deleuze: from societies of discipline to societies of 

I never read anything by Deleuze, and the only relevant thing from
Foucault I've read is Discipline and Punish - but going by that, the
impression I have is that they associate this kind of internal control
with capitalism. To me it seems that internal control in 'normal'
capitalism (as opposed to fascist dictatorships, or ex 'really existing
socialism') is not that successful

There is a continuum of visibility of power and control. The tricks that
occur in political control are to remove the need for the direct
application of force. So, for example, when I do not cross a police line
because I know that my friends are crippled with long-term injuries as a
result of crossing a policeman, and I do not wish this, then I am a
subject of control.

There is a fascinating discussion to be had about the origin of
hierarchy from the activities of people who should be having S&M sex,
but being frustrated in their sexuality go into politics, and end up in

The "internal control" is, I think, very successful. We are mostly not
capable of breaching these domains of control. Elias Canetti's "crowds
and power" covers a lot of this in the attempt to discover how fascism
worked - so does the "Third Wave" article that is in the "Next Whole
Earth Catalog"

cheers, Rich.

rich walker | technical person | Shadow Robot Company | rw
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                                 London  N1 1LX       | +UK 20 7700 2487

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