the Reservations WAS Re: [ox-en] Please start the project!
- From: Adam Moran <adam mkdoc.com>
- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 04:17:25 +0000
Hi,
A lot is being asked of Stefan and we should give him time to establish
his perspective on how this project is to proceed. Then we can all
decide whether or not we are going to hang out here. What-ever we cannot
deny Stefan a lot of praise for the work achieved so far.
cc wrote:
However at the moment Stefan is of the view that the
wiki's shouldn't be linked to or publicised or used...
which is a shame...
I am still unsure why this is the case myself - I have read through the
*history* and hold a comparison with the times of Ulrich von Hutten.
take a look at all the email on the
project list if you want the details...
I'm not sure if we are even allowed to mention or discuss
the wiki's here... :-(
It has been now and it has become the crux of my thinking also,
understandable so. I think it would give us all something more concrete
to do and tend to lower any flames.
This and the fact that this list now seems to serve as a
counseling service for fascists
You'd be surprised of the uses of which an email list can have. Although
my preference is to work on open lists, I appreciate sometimes it is
necessary to work in closed groups, as an intermediary almost, between
them and the big out-side. Often, I am pleasantly surprised to find that
they are the big out-side and they learn me stuff I didn't know before.
... But in any case it's me that normally ends up doing this task ad
infinitum ... I think Monalito wanted to get one back at me ... I dunno
... but Jonathan, or for that matter, any number of people who stumble
across us, will find something they dislike ... or suggest a path to a
better life which they believe has novelty ... it may seem outrages at
first instance ... indeed it may be outrages.
I very much hope we aren't blinded by the amount of work this will be in
our hope to help the ones that can unfold. This is not just a
catch-phrase folks. People are unfolding in their emails; read the
archive if you think I am writing nonsense ... that is not to say that I
can't write nonsense when so required.
I witnessed, like many of us on this list a recent event that caused me
to treat Jonathan's arrival with care. There is are obvious comparisons
to many of us. The issue in the front of our minds is how to protect our
network.
How we cope with these real or imagined demons will no doubt lead to the
success of this project. The strange thing is some of us learn more from
failure than success. This is known investigational technique for
testing all forms of matter in general.
Jonathan has convinced me and maybe others that he wants to learn. My
guess is that I will know the truth of this statement ... or he will
learn me something different ... and probable a mixture of both ... in
less time than it will take to get the wikis launched.
and those who object to
having fascists on the list are called Stalinists and
witchhunters makes me seriously wonder if there is any
point in hanging around...
This is an issue for me also in that I believe that the hierarchical
structure of the soviet union under Stalin should not be at all
parralled with an email list. As I understand things, this email list
cherishes non-hierarchical structures in their entirety. If this is not
the case than like you I begin to wonder if I wouldn't have more joy
else where.
We need to do something concrete, we need to do the wikis.
Also, lets start learning that this unfolding is not just a catch phrase
but the phenomena we need to describe. Please feel free to abstract your
self out of the frame for a little while and do useful stuff on the pox
list - I think we need to set up some sort of intermediary, chats, i've
heard mentioned ... maybe come unfold with me sessions ... i just can't
find a name for it ... but if we root around we'll be able to find some
working model in the educational sector for sure. They have them in
Australia I know.
"In Project Oekonux different people with different
opinions and different methods study the economic
and political forms of Free Software. An important
question is, whether the principles of the
development of Free Software may be the foundation
of a new economy which may be the base for a new
society."
How can we 'study' if we can't 'do' - how can we 'learn' if we can't
'do' - We are fortunate to have at our disposal many of the best
engineers out in the wild so to speak. Our engineering encompasses many
fields and many scripts. We need to test out our scripts for us to
improve them. If you read back my posts this is a point that I have made
time after time after time after time on this list. No one has suggested
to me that this is not the case.
Oh ... I've thought of a name [ox-en-alert] (grin)
the place where the big outside meets the big outside ... or to put it
another way the place where infantile dementia meets infantile dementia.
these places are hard work but fun and they get easier, and all help is
welcome, all unfolding in to a non-hierarchical group welcome kind of
thing. Often folk who have unfolded come back for more and are far more
use than they are annoyance.
Oh ... I've remembered the name they give these things still in the usa
- the *Reservations* - let us endeavor to learn at a meta-level how
these groups can help us ... and let us be aware that this meta-level
learning is of most use on open lists in that they learning can be
witnessed and repurposed by others. Our scripts are FLOSS after all.
May be Josef could meet us there and let us know why he left in such a
hurry ?
--
Adam
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