Re: [ox-en] Apple trees (aka capitalism) are bad. What about barter exchange?
- From: Diego Saravia <diego.saravia gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:45:45 -0300
2009/4/26 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 gmail.com>:
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Diego,
I have no issue with consumption levels being hard to sustain, but the US,
without this welfare system, consumes much more energy than Europe,
yes 2 times more per people, I think
so
'blaming' the welfare system for it seems disingenous;
without "popular" consumption you can reduce it more
also, capital did not
need to unions and workers agreement to exploit the rest of the world,
mmm, political movements and unions in Europe were very strong at that times.
Comunist parties and others plus a very strong URSS could change
western Europe. Cold war, Cultural war, operations as Gladio, and
other strategies were not a game.
they
did that way before welfare
for capitalist is better to have a uniformly exploited world, but
they are limited by politics, where politics is strong enough
so I see that differently, workers and unions were strong enough, and
capital weak enough, and scared of the Soviets, to arrive at a compromise
for european workers ...
yes, its the same I said.
we need a global welfare system,
yes
not based on high levels of consumption
yes, but seems something contradictory. Global welfare and low
consumption could means reducing population or going back to cave
ages.
but
on covering essential needs, for the whole world, and blaming european
workers for that is not going to advance that agenda I think
blaming?
I am not blaming, they did what was good for them
Stronger civilizations always conquer weaker ones
I do not think history as a list of actions to blame the people who
did each one.
each one of us is a survivor who eated a lot of "loosers"
this reasoning also leaves the local elites blameless, which is why I guess
it's a popular meme,
local elites in third word usually are descendant of conquerers
you will get a better picture if you analize genetics
for example in LA most people have native origins in mother line and
european in father one
in England 3/4 of population is descendant of one of the oldest kings.
--
Diego Saravia
Diego.Saravia gmail.com
NO FUNCIONA->dsa unsa.edu.ar
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